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October 10, 2011

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The right to protest is what matters more than what your protesting. I tend to agree standing on a corner with a protest sign pales to a civil rights lawsuit...my protest is the vast gap between a protest sign and the courts eg while many activists know how to stand on a corner with a protest sign, few will take the time to learn civil rights law and move it from the streets to the courts. I dont really blame the common activist for this gap but I do blame the Esquires, especially ones who treat the law as a trade secret in the vested interest of $300 an hour.

Most protests start off with a few 'hippies' and radicals but if it catches on then what you see is 'community leaders' join the protest after they feel its 'safe' to but their late joining is actually less pure than the intial anarchists, hippies, rads and misfits who came one, come all from the start, not just when it was 'safe'.

David
I think you are wrong on this one.What do most Americans have left.Most cannot affords to fight this in the legal system and wait years for relief.Our elected official are bought and sure the hell are not listening.
If you are standing up for Wall street and the banking interest than you maybe part of the problem.
Lets see hear.
20% of the population owns 85% of the wealth.
2% hold 25% of th wealth so that means the left over 15% of the nation's wealth 80% of the population is scrambling for the crumbs off the table.David show me historically where when so much of a nation's wealth is held by so few that econonic collapse and civil unrest is not the out comes.The problem is you can't.
See David you think that your place in the boat,with the 20%, is secure but as I have told others like you is that you are no more than shock troops for these people and if they get what they want you will be going over the side with us 80% and they will be throwing you an anchor.
Heaven help others and you if some true leadership steps up then the wealthy,elite and people like you may surely not like the out comes.
It sure would be nice to see your party step up to the plate and stop being the mouth piece for the few and could act in the interest of the many.No your party will not and this is one more thing pissing many people off.
Remember the British Crown call our founding fathers the mob and we both know how that worked out.The fall of a governments many times in history has been started by only one person.
Wise up and get real.
Thomas

THIS IS JUST PEOPLE WANTING TO BLAME WALL STREET FOR THE SHITTY JOB OBAMA HAS DONE SINCE HE HAS BEEN IN OFFICE. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE BAILOUTS. THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE LET THOSE COMPANIES FILE CHAPTER 11 OR 7 JUST LIKE MINE OR YOU FATHER'S BUSINESS WOULD HAVE TI HAVE DONE. BUSH IS JUST AS MUCH TO BLAME ON THE BAILOUTS AS OBAMA. THE SAME THING WITH THE POLICEMAN'S RETIREMENT FUND. OUR CITY BAILED IT OUT WHILE MY RETIREMENT INCOME WONT BE BAILED OUT.

Thomas: A small percentage controls the wealth in the following countries (to name a few): Russia, Italy, Germany, France, Greece, Mexico, etc - which Obama so desperatly wants America to be - just like these countries. So - is the "middle class" any better off in those countries? It was totally wrong for the US Government to bail out banks and automakers - quit blaming the rich for that - blame the Federal Reserve, Treasury Department, President's Bush and Obama and both parties in Congress. The democrats in congress refused to rein in Fannie & Freddie in 2005 and everyone knew it was a disaster waiting to happen. There is equal blame to go around as far as the lawmakers on both sides of the aisle in Congress. But we the people didn't demand they do the right thing until it all collapsed like a house of cards in 2008. If you don't communicate with your lawmakers (whether you like them or not) about what you believe is right then they do whatever they want. The icing on the cake is that Democrats controlled every bit of legislation starting in January 2007 through December 2010 and they spent money like there was no tomorrow. As far as the Occupy Wall Street protesters - get real. They represent what is wrong with our youth today - lazy, uneducated and no clue how the real world works because their parents spoiled them rotten.

get a job occupiers
See you believe the bull shit from the media.Both parties walked hand in hand in what has happened.
By you it was OK for the banking, Wallstreet and big business to rape,loot and pillage our economy twice in less than a decade.It wasn't just one party that caused this both parties did it together.Just for the recorded I was against any bail outs.The fooishness is that most people believe that you still own your government.Sorry to tell you it was sold long ago to the interest you think are so great and willing to stand up for thinking that they give a shit about you.They don't!

Thomas,

I hear you. I understand your frustration and believe in part of what you are saying.

I don't count myself among the rich, but I do count myself among the financially independent. I do not gamble a dime of my hard earned money on Wall Street - that's a choice I still have and one you do to. Wall Street is a choice you can choose not to participate in.

I may not make a million in a month, but I also will never lose a million in a day either.

As for wealth as a percentage of the population - it was a much different margin when we revolted against the British. 100 men or less in the colonies controlled every single aspect of commerce - this included the Ben Franklin who gamed his fortune from various governments using his influence. We are as equal as we have ever been and the most country where anyone can still become "rich" and literally be from the poor house. There isn't but maybe one other country on earth where that can now happen (Canada). Why do you think people are risking their life to get here?

I will post something about rich vs. poor soon to address your concerns.

David
It is not about rich and poor it is about the wealth of our nation being to concentrated in a very small part of the population.Historically this has never work out for any nation.David what most do not wise to understand is that we cannot all be wealthy it simply would not work and is a childess pipe dream to believe so.I have zero problem with my fellow citizens gaining wealth but one does not fuck their nation to gain the wealth which has gone on for several decades and one gives back to the nation that made the condition for one to gain their wealth.Most of the 20% would sale and have sold our nation down the tubes for their wealth or to keep their wealth.
Do not believe me.
Here is a great example of the mind set I am talking about.Hear it in their own words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqN3amj6AcE

Right on Thomas!

Even Che asked Castro to allow a small free market in the Plaza back in 1959.

I guess David missed 60 Minutes last night, Brazil and Chile and many other Nations are doing very well.

In David's mind the whole world is doing what Salvador Allende did first...

While the CEO's and Corporations screwed the people and the market, for the common non corp individual trader I actually like the market since we are all free to trade there even if David does not want to. Especially the Forex Market is cool because no one owns it eg everyones the same when you logon to brokers like oanda.com kinda like ebay.com these form of Capitalism is ok or easier to swallow in my mind...its unfettered capitalism thats fuels greed and repeal of min wage laws etc

So Thomas and Carl: do you own a PC - made by Dell, HP, Apple (obviously you do because you are posting online)? Do you own a cell phone? Do you buy goods and services from companies that are traded on the stock market? Do you shop at Walmart? Own a flat screen tv, drive a car, etc. You are contributing to the capitalism and corporate greed you hate. If you want rich guys - like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates to suffer then quit buying their products. Don't buy their stocks, don't let your pension fund buy their stocks - invest only in T-Bills and Savings bonds backed by the government. Didn't Meg Whitman get SUPER RICH as one of the founders of E-Bay? Don't deal with E-Bay because you only add to her wealth and the rest of the corporation. Deal only with the underground economy that works on a cash or barter basis only and never, ever pays a single dime in federal income taxes, social security or medicare - but get the benefit of social programs. Then you can punish those evildoer companies owned by rich people. Take your money out of the banks - they don't need it according to you all. A run on banks will surely shut them all down and that should solve the problem of corporate greed and mean bankers. Give up your ATM/debit card; online banking, online bill payments - it only adds to the bankers and Wall Streets pockets when you use that service. Read the bible and its discussion of the rich and poor. The issue has been there since before Christ and no one seems to have solved the problem of people getting rich or inheriting wealth and government trying to take it away from them. Just hasn't happened. DavidK is right - read history - a handful of rich guys from England controlled the economy for the 13 colonies. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Adams - all wealthy men that ran America. Bet there weren't any poor colonists that signed the Declaration of Independence. As far Canada, Brazil and Chile having a better economy - well they don't have an idiot for a president.

get a job occupiers, great points. carl, chile is not in that good of shape. just ask maria conchita alonzo and not oliver stone or 60 minutes. we can buy gas from that asshole chavez at every citgo in the u.s., but we cant drill in the ANWAR. go figure. brazil has its own energy problem solved because they can use all ethanol made from their own suger cane(without subsidizing like we do) and most of there country is made up of a rain forest(well there is all that lumber and no people). when you have your energy problem solved and so many natural resources you are gonna do well, unless you have a government of thieves like they do in mexico. thomas, clinton wanted everyone in america to have a mortgage, so he lessened requirements to get a loan on a house and made it easy. great gesture, but as we found out some people are just born to rent and we bailed out those that took the risk(if you can call it a risk since they were bailed out) loaned them the money and the market suffered. then we get a new prez and he gives everyone in government a raise and spends more money than any president before him and it doesnt work. where did the stimulus go ? wall street is greedy, but our government is by far worse.

I dont have all the answers but ive most likely come closer to living as a Communist than most, especially when I lived at my ranch. I admit I trade at the Market but I dont think I am materialistic and I disagree with David that winners are wealthy and the Poor are losers. I would think content of charactor is more important than cash. When I listen to a song like Luckenbach Texas or This Land was made for you and me, I see and hear something more important than your networth in cash.

Many socialist nations have free markets and trade but they also have social systems...the very basics of tax has always ment to me: so that more people are more equal-equality and more choices. Wealth is basicly just more choices not more happiness, usatoday i think had a story how the money happiness curve goes flat at about $75k a year ie the $250k man is no happier.

Let's see banks,financial institutions and corporations go belly up and their losses are transferred from their balance sheets to the taxpayers. That's why we are in the mess we are. There is no capitalism or free markets. That's an illusion you must wake up from.

The number of foreclosures increased from 1.6 million last week to 2.1 million this were. There are 14 million people out of work. That's 14 million people not spending money and creating demand for everything from apples to zircon stones. That continuing lack of demand will cause more companies to shut down causing more unemployed people. Job growth doesn't even meet the need of new workers entering the job market for the first. All of this before we take in lowering growth numbers in China and austerity measures being taken by governments around the world at all levels.

Depression

The very thing that has killed this country is what Clinton signed in the late 90's, both Bush's by his side along with that murderer Prez from Mexico Salinas. Its called NAFTA. Everything has gone to shit since then. Think about it.

The almost retired Bush and the incoming Obama decided to bail out the banks. The government didn't do that in the 80's during the S&L crises (President Reagan). They let them fail - remember the RTC that was tasked with getting rid of all the toxic real estate loans - worked out fine - economy recovered and life went on. We should have done the same thing - even if it was BofA or Citibank. Piss poor decisions by government workers/politicians that had no idea what they were doing. Private sector (those nasty capitalists) would have fixed the problem. Same with the automaker bailouts. Ford didn't take one - they are fine. Should have let GMAC and Chrylser file bankruptcy and live or die by their decisions. But no - had to protect those unions - not the taxpayers - the unions.

I agree totally "get a job occupiers". I quit buying G.M. and Chrysler a long time ago.

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