The intel I'm getting back from the meetings for the quality of life bond issue has been pretty consistent - almost no talk about the arena and little other precise details of anything are provided.
The arena is being referred to as "significant downtown project" or something close to that. It appears that the groups in charge of separating you from your money are a little wary of saying "arena" in a public forum. They're also very sketchy on the details of exactly what's in and what's out.
The triple A baseball team scenario is drawing laughs from a lot of people who know that sports business because there's really no chance a club is going to consider El Paso for anything but a double A nod and that's not likely either. The way they want the thing structured is rather odd. The money for a baseball stadium will be available only if they find a team, which is just another way of saying "we're putting in a $100,000,000 slush fund for undetermined future projects."
The biggest question I'm getting from everyone is a dangerous one for city staff. Everybody wants to know why this Horrow guy and the PDN are running the show when it's ultimately the city who is getting the money. The question is - What the hell do we pay those people at city hall to do? And that's a good question - what do they do if they can't even go collect money on their own?
When the moderators at these meetings are questioned about Horrow the mood turns defensive and they seem annoyed. In private circles questions about Horrow are answered with "he's on TV!" It's as if anyone who is on TV is incorruptibleand above reproach. Typical El Paso.
I ask that you read the article about how municipalities (taxpayers) get screwed on the arena deal HERE.
I'm on the end of a losing battle here to save you folks a lot of money, but I'll keep trying.
I was on TV once, can I get $100,000,000? Please
Posted by: Tim Collins | January 30, 2012 at 10:50 AM
Mulipurpose arenas and baseball stadiums alike can be win/lose. See Fresno, CA for one that risked it for a baseball stadium with hopes of downtown revitalization and lost...Ok City, Ok on the other hand did ok.
Arenas and stadiums aside, if this bond issue were to pass, what projects would you want to see funded?
Posted by: livingelpaso | January 30, 2012 at 11:39 AM
A Parks Master Plan was developed 5 years ago. They are many suggestions in that plan of how to improve our parks and recreation opportunites and the cost of doing so. I think the City should focus on providing the facilities/parks that were targeted in the Master Plan. If not, then why bother having a Masterplan. There are enough suggestions in that plan to probably cost $200-300 million. The problem is when you build it - you have to staff it - and council for the last 3 years has cut the parks budget and made it almost impossible to maintain and staff our existing facilities.
Don't forget the Regional Park Authority item that failed on the Texas November Amendment ballot election. Is the city going to try again in 2013 to ask for a park authority and taxing authority? If it passes and this bond issue passes then will those arena and park projects be transferred to the park authority? If so - how is the bond debt then handled. Lots of questions and no answers.
Posted by: be careful what you vote for | January 30, 2012 at 12:04 PM
There will be no answers. They won't even be honest with you about the true costs. Remember the costs for principal,interest and fees are just part of the cost. The M&O costs will be prohibitive to the tax payer. You are looking at a 15 cents per hundred dollars in valuation to handle the 500 million plus another 5 cents for M&O costs which will rise around 3% every year. Of course that's before you correct for the tax districts that siphon money from the general fund that someone has to cover the cost for.
Some questions need to be asked about who are members of the PDNG. What little I've see shows huge conflicts of interest.
Posted by: Texaswoman | January 30, 2012 at 03:13 PM
A simple solution to all of this....vote no on any tax increases until the public corruption trials, indictments, and confessions have run it's course. Don't give the government any more money until we find out who is who and what is what!
Posted by: Gossip Girl | January 30, 2012 at 05:25 PM
Actually i've spent more time downtown than most and as ive suggested before there are some very cheap ways to revamp
, one is close certain streets, what this does is make the golden horseshoe more friendly for walkers, without having to crowd pass the goods spilled onto narrow sidewalks, that with benches and waterfacets and toilets is much better than a field of dreams or build it and they will come...infact the cost to taxpayers for closing a few certain streets downtown is almost zero versus the $500 million pipe dream....you help downtown by helping the commoner first before the corporations.
Posted by: Carl Starr | January 30, 2012 at 05:35 PM
Good solution Gossip Girl. Lets not even replace Garcia and see how Episd runs. We may not even need a replacement for him or his salary.
Posted by: Solution Fan | January 30, 2012 at 05:41 PM
Terri Jordan has EPISD under control. She is terrific and the only way to mess that up is to NOT hire her as the Permanent Superintendent. As for PDNG, how about someone sharing a list of the members. With a list it won't be hard to connect the dots on why they want an arena & how they stand to benefit.
Posted by: Ken | January 30, 2012 at 09:07 PM
Ken, you are correct. Dr. Jordan or Mrs. Jordan is absolutely wonderful. We know she likes living in El Paso, so why spend the money to bring someone in who may not like it here or whose spouse may not like it. She is competent, student oriented, and ethical. I have known her since she was a teacher. One suggestion is that there be an "Inspector General's Office" or something like it which would report directly to the school board and which would NOT be anyone in education who has served at any level "above" the teacher level. This office would be housed away from any educational agency. Any teacher, whistle blower or other person with knowledge of any conduct by school personnel or board members would be charged with letting the board at large know about the concern. If there is no response or inadequate response, the office would be mandated to take the concern public.
Posted by: Max Higgs | January 30, 2012 at 09:59 PM
David K,
I've notice the same thing in these QOL community meetings. Noticed to several people attending also expressed reservations over the need for an arena. It was good to hear those reservations being expressed in public,
Posted by: Old Fart | January 30, 2012 at 10:05 PM
One point about Teri Jordan. Since she was the Asst Superintendent under Garcia was she complacent in her responsibilities about the knowledge she should have had about the crooked and fraudulent Garcia deal, blind to what was going on around her, or in on the deal. The choice has no good outcomes. She was either lying by omission, unable to see graft under her nose, lacking the core set of principles to expose the corruption. EPISD needs a total clean break from the past corruption, including the "Gang that Can't Shoot Straight", aka the Board of Trustees.
Posted by: Gossip Girl | January 31, 2012 at 08:48 AM
You know I had decided to take the plunge and buy a house but with this bond issue undecided and the possibility of a similar amount of CO's being issued just to fix our infrastructure buying a home is now off the table.
Posted by: Texaswoman | January 31, 2012 at 09:20 AM
Ken, Jordan was around when all this was going on and never said a word. Leave all pay in its plce and dont do anything for a long time.
Where are all the Veronicun......s on this issue ? I bet spend the money for sure. They don't know how to do anything else and are Puppets of the PDNG.
Posted by: EPISD sucks | January 31, 2012 at 09:28 AM
That stupid area will only destroy more buildings cost the taxpayers money, break the city, and make the bankers PDNG pricks richer.
Posted by: jj | January 31, 2012 at 11:01 AM
The board could have gotten rid of Garcia long ago on the morals clause in his contract. A certain board president sat on the info and did not share it with the board. Could have stopped before it got this bad. The trustees are the problem - they seem to pick loser after loser for superintendent.
Posted by: episd taxpayer | January 31, 2012 at 11:13 AM
I like Norma's, DavidK and JA blogs, I read them all.
But as far as the blogasphere in general I think the google panda thing is working against bloggers. SEO is a big war mostly for cash. Panda was mostly a attempt to flush google of all the crap out there. Politics included.
Posted by: Carl Starr | January 31, 2012 at 12:06 PM
episd taxpayer -- could that certain board member possibly have the initial D in his name?
As for the downtown arena, I would support it if it has an "anchor" first -- such as one of the New Pro Basketball League teams or a AAA baseball team or . You've got to think big to get big. Cleaning up the streets and sticking to the current Park plan are not big ideas.
Posted by: big thinker | January 31, 2012 at 02:07 PM
big thinker: no "D" - its female.
Posted by: episd taxpayer | January 31, 2012 at 03:04 PM
Teri Jordan is beyond reproach. It is easy for those who don't know her to try and include her with all the rubbish that has been EPISD over the past several years. She is very different than any other Superintendent EPISD has had in recent memory. She has earned the opportunity and the kids deserve this type of leadership! Based on the responses, I guess no one has a list of the PDNG members?
Posted by: Ken | January 31, 2012 at 05:47 PM
I do.
Posted by: Texaswoman | February 01, 2012 at 07:10 AM
I heard that Emma was arguing with a guy after city council yesterday. They were discussing if some on council were trying to delay the recall vote. The guy looked at Emma and said "I guess you have delusions of being mayor? She answered " you mean allusions." He said "no, I said it right the first time." Emma then said "well its time we had a Mexican mayor." The guy then answered " what, someone from La Red and were you born in Mexico. Mexico is a nationality and not a race." Emma then answered, "I mean we need a Hispanic mayor." The guy(hispanic also) answered " well I dont like Cook, but its not because he is white, but because he crapped on our vote." This guy had Emma looking for an exit.
We have tried a black Prez, hasnt worked out so well. We need a fiscally sound Mayor and I dont care if he's white, black, brown, or yellow, but we don't need a Hispanic Mayor just because we haven't had one in a while and we surely don't want Emma.
Posted by: Overheard | February 01, 2012 at 09:38 AM
Emma's campaign slogan - "Vote for me because I am Hispanic". Loser.
Posted by: anti Emma | February 01, 2012 at 12:47 PM
82% of El Paso is Hispanic yet council is made up of Hispanics , whites and black citizens.
Apparently Emma is....
Posted by: Texaswoman | February 04, 2012 at 08:54 AM
I think a arena is being up played again. The Times has a story re 'a local group' and "brilliant business men" wanting to buy a baseball team and build a arena.
Posted by: Carl Starr | February 09, 2012 at 12:37 AM
We need an arena downtown like we need a hole in our heads. The only thing that will happen again is that our hard earned money will be going to New Mexico again.
Look at what happened with Western Playland and the Trains. Everything we had just about has gone to New Mexico. The people here cannot afford a high quality of life that this bozos are trying to bring to us. Therefore in order to entertain us we have to go to Las Cruces. That is why we still have the coliseum and other things. We do not need to send people elsewhere we need them here!
we need the money coming here in El Paso, not anywhere else.
Posted by: Lupe | February 17, 2012 at 08:09 PM