Read Muench's column HERE.
I like a lot of the points he makes in his column and as usual he has a knack for putting into words what many are thinking - and he does it in a way that makes you laugh.... maybe even at yourself sometimes.
He is right on with his question about where all the lovers of City Hall and the Insights Museum have been hiding. Have most of the whiners ever been to either?
City Hall has the constant stench of sewer gas on the main floor. I've done a lot of work on sewers - big, small and gigantic - I've seen a lot of shit in my day. More importantly - I've smelled it. The first floor smells like a manhole atop a 24 inch sewer main - and that can kill a person. My contractor buddies (who are at City Hall ten times a week) and I have often talked about the problem and how dangerous it is and we all agree the fix is north of a million bucks at a minimum. I've seen building owners tear entire shopping centers down over much more minor plumbing problems.
Once you get past the smell the other problems just start piling up and the cost to fix them all follows the height of the pile - up, up and up. Taxpayers could spend $15 million polishing a turd, or $5 million renovating the Blue Flame and paying $1 a year in rent from here to eternity. You don't have to be a real estate genius to understand how good of a deal taxpayers are actually getting. Most of you have your fingers in your ears and are screaming "I'm not listening" over and over again, so you wouldn't know a good deal if it snuck up and bit you on the ass.
Paying the stadium money back with HOT revenue isn't as bad as you think. I thought about it and was reminded of asinine events the HOT pays for now. I don't want to get into specifics because I have friends that would be very hurt over my critique of their event, but the city often votes to spend that money ignorantly on events that don't draw in-town crowds much less out-of-town crowds. At least the HOT revenues will be tied up in a clearly succesful project from here on out instead of being thrown at every sparsely attended events held downtown. You may remember a few years back when Wannabe Mayor Acosta demanded HOT funds for a car show in Segundo because somebody's cousin was flying in from LA for the event... she got laughed out of the room (thank God).
In all the years I lived in El Paso I couldn't figure out what the Insights Museum was - or did. I don't think anyone is going to miss it. I'm sure they can move whatever is in that building to one of the many other facilities the city owns. It can't be that big of a deal if the reality is that nobody goes to see what's inside the museum right now. It's not like we're talking about tearing down a Chico's Tacos, folks - just a stupid museum that El Pasoans have no interest in.
(By the way - if you think my last sentence was mean - ask yourself what your politicians and local leaders tell out-of-towners about El Paso when they ask. Do you think they lead with the Insights Museum? Or, do they tell people they have to go to Chico's? Exactly my point and your biggest problem to overcome.)
I guess the good news is that the people in El Paso are at least consistent - they're against everything and for nothing. Your motto should "we hate everything about our city, please don't make us change it."
Where did your sudden love for minor league baseball and private business ventures funded with public dollars AND public debt (ie leaving taxpayers and their children on the hook for it) come from? Next thing we know you'll be extolling the virtues of the Democratic party and Barack Obama because Hunt and Foster are going into the healthcare insurance business... And they'll need to subcontract mummy and daddy!
Posted by: Susie's brain | July 23, 2012 at 05:15 PM
Susie's brain: So you don't have a problem with the $218M CO's for streets? Its just this project that is to be funded by HOT not CO's/GO's. You must stay in a lot of local hotels if you think you are paying for the stadium.
As far as City Hall - what if they keep it where it is and pass $10-20 Million in CO's to fix it up (Cadillac style - the best of everything) - will that be okay? As long as the private sector had nothing to do with that - right?
While we are at it - let's fund 100% of Insights Museum that has lost money since the day it opened - how's that for good use of taxpayer dollars - so long as private sector doesn't get a piece of that pie - right? I get it. DavidK is right - people here hate everything about El Paso and want it to stay exactly the same. If taxes here are such a burden then why haven't you done what hundreds of El Pasoans do - move to New Mexico - commute to El Paso - low property taxes - but wait...state income taxes.
If I had my way city hall would be moved anywhere BUT downtown - just for ease of access - but that's never going to happen.
BTW - if you have been reading this blog for as long as its been around you would know that DavidK loves the game of baseball - so its not a new found love of the sport.
Posted by: haters get a life | July 23, 2012 at 06:13 PM
Hey Mr Hater 9and you to Mr DavidK), I'll tell you what I wrote to JoeM about his article - excellent way of combining strawman, red herring, and non sequitors into a debate. But anyway, 1) the public expects to pay for streets and to pay ALOT because EVERYBODY uses the streets. 2) If you SLOW DOWN and CAREFULLY study the plan for the arena (provided by the good folks in the PowerPoint Presentation department at city hall) the city sez MOST of the cost will be paid by HOT; Not ALL the costs. So every year we will make up the shortage from some general fund paid by us. 3) Even Foster and Hunt and Wilson admit the HOT will not be enough and that 10cents per ticket will not be enough. So go back, study it again, and prove me wrong on this. Everyone would like a nice shiny stadium in this town to brag about just like everyone wants an honest discussion on how to do this right. And just so I get to use your strawman argument, so if a place to obtain knowledge like Insights Museum should not be supported because it does not generate a profit, should we also close the city funded libraries?
Posted by: trickdaddy | July 23, 2012 at 11:09 PM
The National OrganIzation for the Reformation of Norma Chavez (NORNC) has determined that Norma Chavez is now masquerading under a Pseudo Susie Byrd alias. Well Played Norma people... Well Played indeed. Your new motto... "let's continue to keep El Paso shitty... So we can profit for our own Pockets". Que Barbaro Normacitas...Que Barbarooo!!
Posted by: NORNC | July 24, 2012 at 12:55 AM
trickdaddy,
El Paso should absolutely shudder all libraries other than the downtown branch. Huge money losers that no one uses. Same goes for senior centers, most of the smaller parks and a host of other useless assetts you carry with your tax dollars. I'm all for it - privatize them all.
HOT will pay the bulk of the stadium cost as projected. Will some dollars go to make up the difference each year? Yes, but as stated in the plan, not a lot. It's not the same as the streets. And not "everyone" uses the streets that will be fixed. A vast majority of the street improvement projects go to the west side. People in the lower valley who really need the upgrades never go use the streets on the west side - so it really doesn't benefit them, now does it?
Please be specific in you strawman, red herring and non sequitor charges against Muench - I don't think you know what any of those mean and just threw them in there to sound smart. The non sequitor charge is the most interesting given op-eds are specifically topical and useless if they are not.
Posted by: David K | July 24, 2012 at 08:52 AM
I don't have much love for city hall and avoid the place like the plague. I'm not big on paying for a new city hall that wasn't voter approved. If the Politicos want a big new shiney toy, then they should beg for it like everyone else. EPISD also supposedly had a sweetheart deal to move in to the Blue Flame that turned into a giant money sucking albatross. $5 million for renovation on a building that age which has been out of use for sometime just seems like a low ball number - those buildings always have a thousand hidden problems. I'm curious how the city will deal with the parking issues for their employees. Not that their current scenario is great, but it is going to drive up traffic and demand on an already crowded area.
As for Insights, you've got to have kids to enjoy it. That being said, it is still very underutilized and the staff seems helpless to know how to change that fact. If it were a non-subsidized business it would have folded long ago and it's already been replaced with other groups who have a more dynamic model.
Posted by: dot | July 24, 2012 at 09:36 AM
The westside is only getting one major street "improved" in the recent $210M bond issue. Most of the streets will be in all the other districts except the westside. Go back to the agenda item when this was passed and look at the project list.
As far as parking for city employees - most of them park in the garage at Union Plaza, or way down the street from city hall where there are no meters, the civic center, etc. The city does not pay the parking costs for all employees. Only certain employees get to park in the big parking lot in front. Either way - we have a very ugly entrance into City hall from the Santa Fe side and the Durango side.
Posted by: haters get a life | July 24, 2012 at 10:17 AM
Let's see, listen to people who run multi-million dollar corportations or listen to people who never left El Paso and never bothered to better themselves and are living in the same house in the Lower Valley or Central El Paso that their abuelita bought in 1930?
Listen to people who work their asses off and make money consistently year after year, or listen to people who go and put in their 8 hours at a go nowhere job and then go home and rail against the evil whitey's with money who just want to take away El Paso's "heritage" and "cultura" even though that "cultura" is nothing but a tightly held memory of pachucos and cruising Ascarate and throwing a kegger for your kid's first birthday in your borther-in-law's back yard?
Listen to people who long ago should have packed up and left this backwater because they are constantly being slapped in the face for putting up a medical school, a new face on the Sun Bowl, and fixing up an eyesore downtown building unlike "I built this fucking town" Billy Abraham, or listen to people who want to follow Norma Chavez and her minions down the "Xicano, Chicano, Aztlan, I'm brown and I can't do no better than this because I'm brown and the evil white rich people who get things done in this town are always holding me down" bullshit trail?
Foster and Hunt should hold a press conference and tell this city to fuck the hell off for all the bs they keep getting. If you don't like baseball, DON'T GO TO THE GAMES! I don't want to pour money into a stupid school district that churns out kids who are illiterate in two languages, but I do. When I get the option of not paying my school taxes, I'll give you the option of not paying for something that will benefit the city.
Oh, sorry, I forgot. Most of you haters are RENTING from people who pay property taxes because you're too busy paying for your cell phones, flat screen tv's, spinning rims, home entertainment centers, and outlet store Coach bags to buy a house and contribute to this city.
When you get off welfare, then you can have a say. Until then, shut the hell up.
Posted by: in the CV for 15 years | July 24, 2012 at 12:04 PM
I generally agree with you, David....not so on the Insights Museum. The kids I have taken there have loved it...yup, needs to be updated, etc., but I think it would be a shame to not have that for the kids.
Posted by: Insights Museum Fan | July 24, 2012 at 12:12 PM
DavidK
Your response proved my points. Thank you.
Posted by: trickdaddy | July 24, 2012 at 12:37 PM
Comment of the Year by "In the CV for 15 Years" Maybe decade.
Posted by: Michael | July 24, 2012 at 12:38 PM
trickdaddy,
I'm sure they didn't. You're just too dense to argue with me.
Posted by: David K | July 24, 2012 at 01:17 PM
Comment by "In the CV for 15 Years" - well said!!! Can you please run for Mayor on that platform?
Posted by: haters get a life | July 24, 2012 at 03:12 PM
Dear CV,
What the hell are you ranting about?
If you can show me that a subsidized baseball stadium is guaranteed to unequivocally (or even just likely) benefit the city, than I'm all for it. But I haven't seen the logic yet.
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 24, 2012 at 03:40 PM
lenny bruce - I haven't seen the that subsidized education in any of the school districts in this city have offered any guarantee to unequivocally (or even just likely), produce well educated children, but I still pay the tax bill.
Posted by: been in the CV for 15 years | July 24, 2012 at 04:15 PM
Well, CV, maybe you're content to let our city father's squander our tax money, but I'm not.
You just keep being a good sheep, and let the adults talk.
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 24, 2012 at 05:01 PM
Sorry but us enters pay property taxes in our rent every single month without the breaks homeowners get now to the ball park.whats not included is the cost to fedo the streets and exit ramps. the replacement costs for city hall is a low ball estimate. real replacement cost is twice that if its a new building. if its a remodel job its closer to 100 million dollars as everything needs to be redone and ADA compatable. The ticket surcharge wont even pay for the water bill which the city is responsiblr for.
Posted by: texas woman | July 24, 2012 at 05:23 PM
Lenny, I'm going to try and recover from your withering comeback while I explain how business works.
Clearly, you've spent quite a bit of time memorizing the "we're just pobrecito brown folks" handbook. No one is disputing the risk involved or the fact that there will be some burden to the taxpayer, but that is what happens when you are trying to - wait for it - improve your city. It's just like when you do improvements on your home, you spend money on things like paint, and carpet - see how that works?
If you want people to come to your city and spend money, they need to have things on which to spend money. San Antonio gets millions of people to come to their city to sit next to a smelly, cemented canal and buy wildly over-priced drinks at cookie cutter restaurants. They call it the Riverwalk.
Now, stay with me...
When that was built, there were people who said it was a waste of taxpayer money and it would never work, but lo and behold, it HAS worked! People who don't have riverwalks with over-priced drinks and cookie-cutter restaurants in their cities, love to go to San Antonio where they do have such things! Conventions are booked on the strength of the Riverwalk. Other businesses sprung up to take advantage of the people who needed something else to do other than drink over-priced drinks in cookie-cutter restaurants.
See how that works? I would draw you a picture, but I'm afraid your mom wouldn't like you getting peanut butter on her computer screen when you reach out to touch it.
Lenny, you just stick with your Pobrecito Handbook and keep on typing away. The adults are talking, and they're going to build a ballpark.
Posted by: been in the CV for 15 years | July 24, 2012 at 05:27 PM
We were aware of the sewer gas issue at City Hall in the 1980's. Turned out to be floor drains that were dry. Pouring a glass of water once a week in each one solved the problem.
Posted by: h2o | July 24, 2012 at 05:46 PM
CV, who's going to come to El Paso to watch Triple A baseball? Do you go to Albuquerque to watch the Isotopes? Do you go to Tucson to watch your new team? Does anyone?
You're delusional if you think a new stadium and a Triple A team are going to kick-start tourism in El Paso. Is that your justification? Is that all you've got?
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 24, 2012 at 06:30 PM
Lenny, is David K's blog the ONLY website you click on when you surf the net? No. I imagine there are other interesting sites you visit such as burymyheadinthesand.com, ihateprogress.org, and i'dratherbedoingnothing.com.
The point is, the ballpark isn't going to be the be-all, end-all tourist draw. It will be a jewel in a developing crown. Medical school, UTEP, museums, Plaza Theater, County Coliseum, and if someone could make it happen, Concordia Cemetery.
Are we going to be New York, Chicago, Vegas? No. But we need to do something that will at least make us as attractive to tourist dollars as other Southwestern cities like Albuquerque, Phoenix, and, yes, Tucson.
We need to stop saying we're not good enough or we don't have enough money or no one will come here. Go out tonight and check out the parking lots of restaurants all over town. Take a gander at the mall parking lot, the movie theaters, the airport. People are spending money, a LOT of money. There is money here in El Paso. We need it to stay here and come here from other places.
We need to dress up a bit like the girls in the Cincinnati Entertainment District to make ourselves more attractive. The ballpark will do that.
Posted by: been in the CV for 15 years | July 24, 2012 at 07:11 PM
CV, so when you're talking about money to fund the stadium, what you're telling me now is that it's a down payment on what's likely to be a multi-million dollar expenditure of tax dollars on "a developing crown." I guess we can keep jacking the hotel tax every time City Council wants a new toy. Why settle for a two percent rise, when we can go for full parity?
And all that money that's currently being spent in El Paso is already being spent in El Paso, so that's not more money than we have now. That's just putting it in someone else's pockets. I think conservatives call that "income redistribution."
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 24, 2012 at 07:23 PM
good grief...
Lenny, I listed the things that are happening around us, i.e., museums, med school, as part of the "developing crown", not as a harbinger of taxation doom.
I don't believe that City Council thinks of the ballpark as a "new toy". I think they've seen the possibilities that can open up with a ballpark.
You, lenny, and others like you, are like children who turn down a bowl of ice cream because you don't want to get up off your butts and go to the kitchen to get it, but then cry and scream when other kids are enjoying theirs because they had the gumption to get up and be rewarded.
If we keep turning down bowls of ice cream, pretty soon, we won't have any offered to us. I know you want that, len, so stay where you are. The rest of us are going to enjoy the ice cream.
I have kids to feed, so have a good night.
Posted by: been in the CV for 15 years | July 24, 2012 at 07:45 PM
Well, CV, I haven't seen the possibilities that can open up with a new ballpark, and when I asked you about it, you haven't really shown them to me. You said something about tourism, and ice cream, and peanut butter, but you haven't been able to connect the dots for me. You left out the part about how we need a "vibrant downtown," but I'm not sure how a ballpark that's only hosting ball games 70 times a year is going to contribute to a "vibrant downtown," when close to 80 percent of the year, it's going to be a mausoleum.
But maybe if they build it like the Taj Mahal . . . .
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 24, 2012 at 07:57 PM
And another thing: I like ice cream, but I wouldn't order it in a restaurant if I didn't know what it costs. And if you order it for me, don't ask me to pay for it.
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 24, 2012 at 08:00 PM
Been in the CV for 15 years, maybe Lenny Bruce needs the comments in braile; since he can't connect the dots.
Posted by: Michael | July 25, 2012 at 12:10 PM
Michael - that's funny.
Posted by: haters get a life | July 25, 2012 at 03:48 PM
Michael, I agree. Of course, it is hard to see anything with your head buried in the sand...
Posted by: been in the CV for 15 years | July 25, 2012 at 08:07 PM
You Kool Aid drinkers need to dust off your critical thinking skills. Do you really think that a new stadium in downtown El Paso is the best way to spend $50 million (minimum) in this community?
Posted by: lenny bruce | July 26, 2012 at 01:10 PM
Norma mentioned again.
Posted by: Paul | July 26, 2012 at 07:41 PM
Young'Un
If I were to like a sport, it would be baseball, but...
Since when did a major league team make economic sense to anyone but the owners? They do not, and there is encyclopedic information on this. But... I would love to see City Hall disappear; it should have been built where the County Jail is now. Jon Cunningham, Director of Planning, was castigated for saying that in 1977. Turns out he was right. What a stupid location, and design. Then it was built by turning it 90 degrees on the site. Part of the reasoning of course was that city hall would spark economic development in the neighborhood. And the civic center was expanded. Then the city tried to get the old Gibsons on Montana for smaller conventions, because the airport is where most people want to be. Now the city is pursuing the failed concept of new urbanism. Keep on truckin'!
Posted by: Claymore | August 01, 2012 at 04:39 PM
Mr. CV San Antonio has over 20 million all within a three hour drive. El Paso...maybe a tenth of that. Different dynamics. 50 million dollars. Now that's serious welfare. It's stupid to assume all EPISD students are dumb.
Posted by: jkl | August 03, 2012 at 11:55 AM