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November 12, 2012

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David, how would you or anyone know which way the vote was going to go on the props? There is no credible independent polling organization here (IPED finds what they are paid to find) and the kool-aid was flowing so fast out of city hall, PDNG and Occupy that it was anyone's guess. I attended the Niland town hall and was waiting for the tomatoes to start flying toward her and Wilson; angriest I have ever seen people here who are normally comatose on elections. To me that said this deal was in trouble.

The Inc did that 60-70 count exit poll that, it turned out, was surprisingly on the mark. I suspect they lucked out because it was no where near as large as what it needed to be for real predictive value (I've done a few statistical surveys in my time). On a given day, anything can and will happen. I heard of one survey where it was 2:1 against!

Nevertheless, the people have spoken and I respect that even if I don't especially agree. I don't know how anyone can argue this is not a popular issue, even if it jeopardizes the city's financial status. Remember there there multiple taxing entities here all of which can issue debt and don't have to ask the others if it's OK. So, from the bond market's perspective we're all on the hook for the debt of all the tax entities here. It's a package deal!

Rotten, the whole "kool aid" argument is what losers say when they lose. I find it hard to believe that 75% of voters said 'oh yeah!' as they burst through a wall of bricks to vote. They made informed decisions based on the information that was out there.

The Norma faction did nothing but screech and throw poop against the wall, hoping against hope that others would believe their excrement. The only ones who did are Emma and Eddie. When all you can do is rail against the 'white' devils, Foster and Hunt, your 'facts' fall flat. Foster and Hunt could go to any other city and be welcomed with open arms for the money they pump back into the economy. Here in El Paso, we denigrate them for their philanthropy.

The pro-bonds people held steady in the face of the shitstorm Norma et al tried to blow them over with. The class they displayed is to be commended. When all is said and done, just as in the case of The Plaza Theater, all the improvements will be applauded.

According to David's distortions, distractions, and outright deceptions, most on council are controlled by a covert group of "insiders". Fortunately, most of the people who are seriously interested in preserving our civilization know that the reality is that David thinks it's good that his doctrines cultivate networks of snitches and spies to ensure that any unity against his favorites on council can immediately be nipped in the bud. It is difficult to know how to respond to such monumentally misplaced values, but let's try this: If you were to compose a list of the things that an intelligent, clear-eyed, and capable young person could do with his or her life to restore the city government back to its original balance, I suspect that creating and nurturing a true spirit of community would figure somewhere in the first three items.

Moreover, the comments section are typically couched in gutter language (which is doubtless the language in which David habitually thinks) and serve no purpose other than to convince me that he believes that it is everyone's obligation to dismantle the guard rails that protect society from the acrasial elements in its midst. That view is anathema to the cause of liberty. If it is not loudly refuted our future will be dire indeed.

It is pointless to fret about the damage already caused by David's feckless credos. The past cannot be changed. We must cope with the present if we hope to affect our future and reveal the nature and activity of David's encomiasts, who are legion, and expose their inner contexts as well as their ultimate final aims. David wants to spawn delusions of racialism's resplendence. You know what groups have historically wanted to do the same thing? Fascists and Nazis. Though I don't doubt the depth of his sentiments, it's rather the form of his expressions that I find both uneducated and meaningless.

Alonzo with a Z... JOP...

You've missed the point completely. El Paso is finally making up for decades of lost ground due to the narcisist leaders of our past who let people like Norma block progress for political gain. Those days are over. Primarily because of people like David who aren't afraid to expose this lunatic mentality for what it is. Your days are done. The El Paso Renaisance has begun despite your efforts, and Norma/Paul/Moreno/Eddie/Hooten/Francis/Emma et. All naysayers who have impeded our past.
Your time and political style of being the loudest voice does not work anymore. Evidenced by all of Norma's political picks. Run along now to Vinton. You'll fit in great there.

Rotten,

I had no idea how the vote was going to go given that I said all of them would fail miserably. However, I'm 1,900 miles away. Holguin has his ear to the ground in the district, but obviously wasn't listening.

If you're not 100 percent sure your constituents are with you, don't claim they are - you'll end up looking like a moron every time you break that rule.

No,this goes to show what schmucks a minority voting block is in El Paso.Let be honest here there was a small group of voters thinking they were going to get some goodies mostly for free.Wait until they see their tax bills in the next 3 to 6 years and they will realize they were screwed.I like the mind set of these people that a ball park,a third rate baseball team will bring economic improvement to El Paso and fix El Paso's ills.No,dumbasses educating your people and raising the worker's skill levels are the only things that will bring economic improvement.
Yep,I am going to take little Billy down to watch baseball this will be a sure fire way to make him understand what he need to be successful in life.Little Billy fifteen years on."Get your peanuts and beer",stuck in a broken down ball park,with a third rate baseball team,in a dead end job.
El Paso the schmucks in the desert.Fools and their money will be parted if the El Paso CC has anything to say about it.Boy I am sure glad I do not live in the city of ElPaso.

Thomas, boy, are we glad you don't either. The whole 'small group of voters' argument was completely blown out of the water by the 75% of voters who saw the point of raising taxes - if your taxes are going up anyway, you should have something to show for it. 75% is not a small group of anything. It is an overwhelming majority.

Show me one "broken down" ballpark that the MLB is involved with, and I'll eat my hat. This is not the Tiguas and their "improvements" at Cohen. This is bigtime, PROFESSIONAL sports, not amateur baseball. The players who will be coming here won't be begging to be put up in people's houses because they are being paid 600 dollars a month.

The jobs that the ballpark will bring may be starter positions, but they could help put a kid through college or a trade school and on to a better wage elsewhere. No one is suggesting that anyone is going to get rich off a ballpark job. But leave it to morons like you who expect to be handed a high wage without ever working from the bottom up for it to bitch about jobs being created. You raise people's skill levels by showing them what a job entails and showing them that by working, they advance in life. Of course, people like you are of the "que estan dando" way of life and don't understand that.

And leave it to morons like you who don't understand that "goodies" cost money. If you go to a park, taxpayers pay to keep that up, whether they use that particular park or not. I pay taxes to EPISD, but my kids never attended their schools, nor do my grandchildren. But I see the benefit of education, so I don't bitch about them until they screw things up on an epic level as they've been doing lately.

There is no such thing as free, Thomas. And the way you word your reply makes me think you are Eddie Holguin, and still butthurt from your constituents voting in "goodies".

A ball park is not a renaissance, nor are the things that the city should have had all along like parks and museums and libraries, largely denied it by development interests fixated on cheap spawl and lost cost houses for low cost people.

Without an educated populace and honest government versus a culture of corruption, all this money does is add fuel to the fire - a $500MM slush fund for city hall to reward its friends.

Cv
Maybe you just missed that the majority,you do know what the majority means,stayed home and did not turn out to vote.The minorty voting block that I am talking about is dumbasses like you.
This ball park bullshit is going to go like UMC and the children's hospital.Sold to the people of El Paso that it would cost them little or nothing.Well that was a lie and because of the lie your taxes have been raised for the last two years and will be raised again next year.Wait until the Texas legislature gets done next year and see the bill you get added on at the County and the the city from cuts they make.Let the federal government makes cuts to Fort Bliss and watch the ElPaso death spiral begin.CV you are just one more mindless schmuck that El Paso politicians love to lead around by the nose.Even David K was smart enough to get out of El Paso.I saw what was coming 12 years ago and left.Cv, I do understand that the goodies cost money and if the government is providing those goodies it will cost double or more than what it should really cost.You and others in El Paso have been played like a harp from hell by the CC but you and others schmucks like you will get it in a couple of years that you were played.
One true I have learned from living in El Paso is that things do not have to work out as they are sold to the people,hell they do not have to work at all.As long as it looks good and sounds good El Paso will fall for it every time.See how much you get from pro 1 and 2 and see how much of that money is funneled back into the ball park by the CC.It is going to end up like the canopy at Cohen Stadium that El Paso tax payers pay for twice after the CC funneled the money off the first canopy until it was all gone.The CC will do the same this time.CV enjoy you burden of taxation until it drives you and others from your homes.Moron!

Rotten pepper
Hey,Cv missed that pro 1,2,3 were sold that it would not cost the elderly or disabled more taxation.Well,Cook let that cat out of the bag on KVIA extra that was a lie too.The CC plans on taxing all no matter what damage that it causes.More to the slush fund.As I said schmuchs in the desert.

No, CV, Thomas posts quite often and seems to be a very unhappy person. Everything is always a problem, everyone is a crook, and on and on. Now Rotten Peppers is another story. Definitely one of the Planters group.

I fail to see where anyone can say David lied on his post. It is a fact that all three bond issues past by a wide margin. It is a fact that Holguin stated he voted against them because that was what his constituents wanted. It is a fact that his district had the most people to vote yes. It is a fact that Holguin is out of touch with the people in his district. He is not in this for them. He is in it for himself and the power he feels. Same thing with Acosta.

Now Holguin is stating he is going to ensure his district gets their share of "goodies". From what I saw, every area will benefit, but more importantly, the CITY benefits. I bet some in Holguin's district wish he would run for Mayor. That way, they can elect a new rep. in May. And he does not have a chance in hell of being elected Mayor. Everyone wins and he is gone!

Tired of the nutty haters
First of all I have a problem with government that out right lies to the people.The schmuch you are that is Ok.The money for pro 1&2 will mostly never be used for what those in the CC said it would be used for.See how fast they funnel it off.The vast majority of voter did not turn out they stayed home because they are tired of the same old shit one get from El Paso government.I will not be paying the taxes you dumbasses will.In 5 to 10 years,maybe less, most will figure out the big white elephant they have been sold. I hope Cv and you will have the balls to stand up and say I voted for this shit and that you were stupid.I just make fun of the non-sense that passes for good government in El Paso which is nothing but garbage to serve the interest of a few and you morons go along with it.If Cv and you were told that spendng a billion for a bag of shit by the kleptocrats,in El Paso government,you two and a few others would be on the band wagon with bells on.Remember David K does not live in El Paso and if they tax people out of their homes and businesses it is not sweat off of his ass.On the other side of that coin if he loved El Paso so much he would have stayed and help fund this mess.Then again he is smarter than that and saw the writing on the wall and took his ass to DC.I really cannot blame him wanting better for his wife and child.El Paso is becoming the arm pit of Texas and no amount of truth or common sense will stop this trend until more people stand up and say enough of this bullshit.So enjoy your high burden of taxation schmuchs.

Rich W... Or Thomas..as you go by here...please see the big picture. EP downtowns tax base is Virtually non existent now. This ball park will change that. Business will pop up along the trolley route. Downtown will be a destination again. Your taxes could actually go down. The City can explain this bIg picture concept to you... But they can't understand this concept for you.. Look lOng look Hard... You'll be gratified once you get the concept.

Thomas doesn't even LIVE IN THE FREAKING CITY AND DOES NOT PAY CITY TAXES.

Thomas, enough already. Your negativity is very tiring. You must judge others based on how YOU are. Not everyone is a crook and I bet ten to one you have NEVER tried to speak to anyone on council BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY LIMITS. You just want to use the amenities YOU DON'T PAY FOR! Stop your whining. You sound like Holguin.

Hilarious that everyone who is against the bonds say, "The majority of voters stayed home," like that is a badge of honor. The fact is the majority of people who gave enough of a shit about the future of our city to turn out to the polls, spoke loud and clear. We are tired of Norma's "cultura" warriors and their "all white people are devils" spew.

If you stayed home and didn't vote your choice on the bonds, you deserve to be downtrodden, taxed out of your house, and unlistened to. Get off your hand-out, welfare, pobrecito asses and vote. Maybe then we would take your viewpoint seriously.

I never said the majority of El Pasoans wanted this, I said the majority of voters, morons. And because I vote, I GET TO TELL YOU WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS!!!! That's the way majorities work - we tell you what is what.

If you are such a lard ass that you can't stop jerking off at your computer keyboard for the 5 minutes it takes to vote, then tough freaking luck, and thank you very much for your apathy. Now I get my ballpark, my arena, my parks, my improvements at the zoo, and whatever else I damn well please because you idiots don't vote!

Thanks to all the "cultura" warriors and your continued apathy and stupidity! "We need to wake up the sleeping giant south of the freeway! We would run this town!" Yeah Norma, I see how well that sleeping giant pays attention to your fat, ugly ass!

PLAY FREAKING BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tired of the nutty haters
Wrong again schmuch!My household does businesses in El Paso every week so I do end up helping pay your taxes. Yes ,I have been face to face with some of the Kleptocrats on the CC.
Allegedly Alledgedly Alledgedly
No matter all the bullshit there is little evidence to support that a baseball team brings much in economic development.There is a lot of evidence to support it will bankrupt a community and leave long term debt for years to come.
I worry for family and friend in El Paso,that own homes, that have told me any more taxation they will have to move from El Paso.They just cannot afford to pay no more to local government.I get the mind set here fuck'em.
No,I am not Rich W who ever that is.

Thomas is one of those dumb fucks ive heard about.

Long John
Is this the best you got.Really brave hiding behind a computer.One more schmuck and punk.The problem here is you cannot carry your argument beyond "we are gettig a ball park".Enjoy the two billion or more of debt that will hand you your ass, kill business, and make El Paso a bigger armpit of Texas.

Thomas-just heard your rant on Norma "no show" Chavez radio show. I guess she got a touch of the budweiser flu this morning. You and Ron are both delusional if you think that economic development and and investing in our downtown core will not add to our tax base over time. I know investing is a tough concept to understand, but the idea is to ultimately have that investment pay off. Spending money that just dissapears into thin air and paying that debt off is all you see.... Well you two dim wits are too dense to understand that when El Paso invests in itself...other will decide to invest in us as well. Look its already happenening with a water park expressing interest in El Paso...why...they probably read about El Paso investing in itself...Hmmmm that makes sense and shows that the BOND concept IS ALREADY WORKING!!

CV & Long John
Answer one question have either of you two set down and read the books of the City of El Paso??????????If you have not you know zero of what you are talking about.If you have not studied the books of your city you are nothing but a couple of clowns that have zero understand of what is being done in your name.
I live in the county and I study the county books every year and have a full understand of what my local government is doing in my name.I am the one who told the people of El Paso county that they were going to double the people's total obligtion of debt.The CCC told the people it would not happen.Well guess what schmucks they did,more than doubled it. Can you say the same that you understand what the city is doing in your name.Nope!

Take one dollar
If any moron says that a heavy burden of public debt is a good thing and will improve economy is a moron.Same question for you have your read and studied the city books?Nope!

Well,still waiting on an answer form the peanut gallery.I will take it I am right you know nothing beyond what the Klepotcrats on the CC and the so called local news media has told you.Simply you guys do not have
the brains between you to know that you are being screwed.I am done with you, so go back and sit in the corner,ring your hands and whine, until I pull your chain again.

The problem with borrowing your way to prosperity is that you never arrive there. El Paso is playing catch-up ball by borrowing to have what other cities have by virtue of their organic prosperity, i.e., money they earned with job creation, an educated workforce, economic development and not having too much siphoned off by the mordidacrats.

The items paid for by the bond props (that will take 10 years to build) will constitute an effect without a cause, IMO. El Paso will look superficially prosperous because it has a ball park and some amenities but the underlying true prosperity of income, jobs, educated people, voters who vote...will not be there. The debt will be there, however.

thomas - did you support Obama? If so - why aren't you ranting about the debt he has caused the US since 2009?

i guess your solution is just don't spend money. Period. Done. that's it.

when el pasoans decide to vote in a greater number than zero it's usually a presidential election - so we had a much higher turnout than we would have had any other time - which shows that people want the improvements to the city.

to use that famous statement from Obama in 2009 "I won - get over it".

lslsls
No I did not vote for Obama.Nice try.I understand that the nation has debt.The shell game of the 16 trillion is not shit to what our total obligation of national debt is,more than a 105 trillion dollar. Most American do not even know about this.Also lslsls remember Bush 2.0 left behind 10.6 trillion of that debt in addition to another 2 trillion that was left behind from his administration and policies.I read the federal books too.
So lslsls same question stands for you when was the last time you read and studied the city books? I am guess the answer is never!

I've read the the city book and I say play ball!

Moose Balls
So tells us some information about the books for 2012?Just a like so we kknow your are not talking out your behind.Here is an easy one you should be able to answer, how much was the total obligation of debt given in the 2012 city books?

Thomas, do you know why they call me long john? It's because i am hung like a horse

$987.6 M...boo ya suck ma dick

How about it Moose Balls
Really easy question to answer but I am guessing like the other schmucks that voted for this crap you have zero idea.Keep googling you may come up with the correct answer.I do not even real review much the books of the city of El Paso but I know the answer. Speaks volumes and shows how informed most who voted for this non-sense were. So give it a shoot!

Thomas is not dumb, just very negative and thinks everyone but him is a crook. May be why he has problems with his neighbors harassing him and the sheriff's office ignoring him.

Thomas, you get mad at someone for calling you a name, yet you called me a name. Can't have it both ways, angry man. All that negativity and hatred is going to give you a heart attack. The world is good and the city is moving onto better things.

By the way, you don't pay PROPERTY taxes and the sales tax you pay does not all come to the city.

Thomas, do you know why the call me moose balls? It's because I have balls like moose

Tired of the nutty haters
No once again you are wrong.The SO sent a task force out to deal with the problem.In addition I only have one bad neighbor and he ended up going to jail for beating his mother up.I'm not mad,I keep pulling your chain and you keep barking.Any time I buy goods or services in the city of El Paso some of the tax dollars go to the city of El Paso.Once again poorly informed there Tired of the nutty haters .In addition you will not answer my question so I guess I was right and you have never looked at the city books.
Last but not the least I do pay tax property taxes in the county. Soooo you were wrong all the way around.
Little winkie who care how small your johnson is.

Wrong there Moose balls
The Financial data and information for the City of El Paso has not be released by the CC to the public for 2012 and cannot be found on the city website. If you followed and read the city books as you said you had you would have known this information.Even the number you have given is even wrong for 2011 for total obligation of city debt.I am done with you.Next!

Moose balls
What happened! Your mouth over load your behind.Your were proven not to know what you were talking about.I am sorry guys but this is just to funny.I do not even live in the city of El Paso and I am more informed about your city government than you are.This is sad and shows how ill informed many voters in El Paso are.This has been fun but I have better thing to do with my time then to teach others how ignorant they are about their own governance and government.Enjoy your burden of debt maybe you will learn something from for the next generation or not.

Rotten Peppers, your wording is EXACTLY like Almond Joy (nut) Townsend's words. Wonder why????

Thomas, I only skim your posts. They are too long and negative for my taste. And you sure posted VERY different information on another site where you kept crying about the bullies.

Why would the city release the 2012 financial data when the books aren't closed yet? Geesh, Thomas. Take a cold shower and cool off.

I love how ThomasThreeNamesNormaSalGomezMartintheLoon and all the Looney Toon squad crow about how much they know, but they didn't see how badly their asses were going to get handed to them in the last election.

"We know how the gente Xicano Chicano Latino voters feel, and they'll NEVER vote for the bonds!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh. Sorry. I meant, JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA!

You dim bulbs can't see that if we DON'T invest in our city, it will continue to deteriorate and fester, much like your pea brains as you try to figure out why you continue to get trounced in every single election cycle.

You also seem to enjoy laughing at us fools who live in El Paso and give a damn about our city. You call us sheep and chortle about how we 'drink the kool aid'. But you continue to breathlessly lap up all news stories, blog posts, and live streams of a washed up, glory days desperate, former legislator - anything and everything you can read or listen to about our city, you Hoover up. You don't live here, and think you're so smart because you 'got out', yet you can't comment on this blog often enough, and sit smugly by when we don't immediately comment back.

So, you tell me, who are the pathetic ones?

Tired of the nutty haters
Sorry to tell you are wrong again your fiscal year ended in october then again you should known this but you do not.Keep digging that hole.No I deal with bullies and your statement is a lie.So your a liar too besides a schmuck.CV go look in the mirror and you will have a good example of pathetic.

Thomas,
Sorry, nothing you said today makes any sense at all. What you described all day long is pessimistic. Surely, if you were anything other than a Psuedo Scholar....anything....say a business man or entrepreneur...anyone else... Youd realize that no city or business ever grew or prospered without investing in overhead to attract new work. Why would anyone move to El Paso now? WHY? Answer....they don't, because we have no attraction. No fun downtown. No nothing here in this town. Wake up man!! If you ever have two nickles to rub together with the thaught of doubling your investment...your model would fail...and this has already been proven by El Pasos past 50 year history with people thinking just like you. Your model didn't work. You've had 50 years to prove it, and you have failed miserably. You can't attract jobs here without quality of life. El Paso has a AA bond rating...so everything you said today about numbers is irrelevant. People will invest in us now. Just you watch.

So sorry Thomas....check .... And ... Mate... You are wrong and we are right.

I forgot to also say Thomas that I also heard you rant on the radio today, and I would suggest you visit a good shrink that can prescribe you some lithium or something. I doubt any contact in your life takes you seriously, let alone give you any responsibility. I would also conclude that you can't play card games very well either.

Oh wait, I forgot one more thing for you Thomas...

YOU LOST.... You are not smarter than 75 percent of the voters in El Paso... Do you not think the Chamber, the Hispanic Chamber...all the other business groups and Doctors groups that supported this had any certified finanancial analysts look at this deal. Are you smarter than them? Do you think the bond underwriters would lend this town any money if they thaught this would fail...so now Thomas you are smarter than Wall Street? What exactly is your profession, Thomas? I might have taken you seriously after you answer that, but I heard you on the radio...so I know all I need to know about you. First impressions Thomas have probably failed you your entire life.

Ya that's right... You LOST! Leh-Hoo-Zer....yodel odle y hey Leh-Hooo-Zerrrrr!

Allegedly Alledgedly Alledgedly
Your delusion.If I am wrong that the fiscal year ended in October prove me wrong.I know what the law says which is state law.Prove to me I'm wrong.Second,the total turn out for all of the county of El Paso was 46%,Let us say you got 46% of the voters in El Paso to turn out, what is 75% of 46%?A minortiy voting block voted this crap in, the majority stayed home.Go look at the numbers.The CC did not get a mandate from the people for this crap.Prove me wrong you can't.Where the hell did you learn economic.High debt load by government never brings knew business,it is a business killer.Please do not use the smarts of wall street they bet against their own clients.I guess you missed this which was one of the major reason for the economic failure at the end of 2008.I guess you missed that because you were in a state of delusion. You have business interest that will underwrite a bag of shit if they think there is a fool to be easily part from their money.Are you for real making such statements.
I am retired because of health reason if that is any business of yours.Then again I'm well respect for what I do.I have had some of by work carried by NASA.My imaging has be published around the world.I was a co fonder of the El Paso fireball meteor all sky camera in support of the north American fireball meteor network.Also I have been interviewed for my knowledge of man made space junk as far away as Austalia. For the last year and a half I have been working on a system to get high resolution images of satellites and rocket bodies on orbit on a less than a shoe string budget.Also working in the emerging field of astroarchaeology.I was the first person to capture the ISS crossing the moon.I give back to the community. I for years have been going to schools in the community giving presentation to children on my own and with the local astronomy club.I could go on.Nope,I am village idiot with no smarts at least by your delusional measures.
In additions I have been a community actives.I have taken complaints as far as the Texas AG's office and won.This year when the county do not give full early voting for my community I took the county to the DOJ by filing a complaint.Guess what this last election we had full early voting.I wonder why that happened?Beat the EPCAD in the county attorney's office for civil violation of open records.The dirt bag D.A.should have prosecuted the EPCAD for crimial violation but the D.A. flew air cover for them by setting on the criminal compalint until the time to prosecute ran out. Then again I am a idiot so what does that say about most of you,the well educated and enlightened ones.If I am a idiot and can do all of this what the hell is wrong with all of you guys?

Thomas, sorry, but you are a freaking idiot. Pick up the phone and make a phone call. The fiscal year ends AUGUST 31, the books are USUALLY closed by October; HOWEVER, the city implemented some updated software and it has delayed the closing of the books. So YOU are the liar and schmuck. No wonder those people want to kick your butt. YOU are a bully. Now crawl back into your hole where you belong because you are FREAKING WRONG and you could have cleared it up IF YOU HAD FREAKING BOTHERED TO CALL SOMEONE AT THE CITY. It took me all of FIVE MINUTES. But you would rather spread hate, lies, and slander. What a miserable person you are. Feel sorry for your family. You must drain them.

Thomas, you said it all when you quoted your abilities "accomplished on a shoestring budget"

You just don't get it...what if you went after wall street money and your ideas were capitalized??? Where would YOU be if you had any smarts or BALLS to back up your talent.... Maybe just maybe you'd be employing 200 people adding to the Tax base.

Do you see now? Shoe string budgets don't do shit for ideas or improvement. Dollars invested always snowball. Look at San Antonio 40 years ago they invested in the controversial River Walk project. El Paso ripped up the trolley tracks to Mexico 40 years ago. San Antonio came out with a big bond Project every 3 years for 40 years.

You are retired I get it now. You are the reason El Paso sucks for the last 40 years. Loud mouth with no balls and no smarts to go after capital....hoping the shoestring business plan finally pays off.

That's not how it works. San Antonio and ABQ have kicked EPs ass for 50 years because of you old guys with no balls.

Hope you are proud of your legacy of nay.

Allegedly Alledgedly Alledgedly
What I do is not a business it called research not the kind that you make money on.Let the retired move out of the city of El Paso and see how fast the city goes to the bottom.The people who's legs and money the city stands on you spit on them.With out the retired the city of El Paso would not even make a wet spot in the middle road.If any one needs help it is you for your Narcissistic personality disorder.
Has a grandiose sense of self-importance
Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.
Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
So spit on and mistreat the retired people in El Paso and see what you get there big boy.One thing most elected officals know as a truth is do not piss off the old people and you will see who has the real balls.

Wrong again Thomas... All you old guys I know already moved to NM. anyway. Your ideas drove your own generation out of state to Las Cruces to retire....why? Because your philosophy on making El Paso great for the last 50 years didn't work. You people didn't have the balls to invest in EP...so for 50 years El Paso has sucked. Thanks!! Now move to Las Cruces like the rest of you people. Your economics forced you out!!! Your fault 50 years later! We should be retirement Mecca!!! But your generation had no balls. You lose. Move over...your grandkids may move home with cash made elsewhere after opportunity to invest presents itself. You killed downtown. Your grand kids are now seeing the error of your nay ways!! You lose again astronomer...

No my kids and grand kids were smart enough to get out of El Paso and never looked back.This is why you have the brain drain,once most of the young people see the out side world that understand how screwed up EL Paso is and never come back.That is why you are left with us old bastards.Been that way for decades,will remain that way and no ball park is going to change or fix that problem and these are the facts.Pie in sky plans,hand outs,corruption,broken government is all El Paso has to offer and there is no one in government or in the privite sector on the horizon to change these out comes.El Paso will remain a bathroom stop for most going some place other than El Paso.I believe in what El Paso and El Paso county could be but throwing tax dollars after bad tax dollars at the problem well not fix the deeper issues that faces this community.Any body who thinks other wise are notrhing more tahn delusional.We will see who the losers are and who told the truth in the next five to eight years. I bet I end up being right.

So perfect ... !!! You naysayers always end up proving the point we made. You just did it it are too stupid to realize it. Again, Thomas...your kids left because of you... You just Proved my point. No one will come back to El Paso with your mentality in power... You are old and youre philosophy didn't work. Your philosophy killed El Paso. Your kids and grand kids voted against you overwhelmingly because your generation has failed your kids. Period. You lose. El Paso will now be something because you're beliefs we're wrong for 50 years... You failed. You had no balls ... Your generation had no vision and were scared little men. Now go and move yourself to Las Cruces where you can be content about retiring. You are a pathetic geeezrr!

No wrong again my kids and grand kids love me.They left El paso for a better future. Speaking of having ball anytime you wish to come find me aveil your self.I'm real easy to find.I do not hide behind a fake screen name and hide behind my computer.As I said I'm real easy to find.

Thomas, we aren't left with any old bastards save a few like yourself. The most recent election made it painfully obvious that the vast majority of our voters in El Paso are on a completely different page then you. If there are many more like you out there, they didn't care enough to represent themselves at the voting booths.

I am a property owner in my late 20's and along with many others like me, have decided to return back to El Paso after college and invest in my city. Just because you, your kids, and your grandkids are quitters, doesn't me we are. Ironically, I would imagine all the places your family has moved to with better quality of life then El Paso had to pay for it.

All you do is talk about corruption and broken government but then offer nothing in the way of facts to support your claims. Thankfully people like you exist to help sway voters on the fence in our favor. I think Norma, Stephanie Townsend Allala, and people like you have done more to promote our cause then we ever could have done.

riburn3
You are just one more snot nose kid that does not know any thing, that has live the life of privilege like most your age compared to 90% of the rest of the world.No facts about broken government and corruption in El Paso are you kidding me.How many of your elected officals have to be carried off in bus loads before you realize that your government is broken and corrupt.You,like some here are on drugs or delusional. That is right one more was sent up the river to day because he was a nice guy.I have hear some stupid shit but this takes the cake.What the only way you will believe you have broken and corrupt govenment is unless it run you down personally in the street.Just like Allegedly Alledgedly Alledgedly and some others here you have zero concept of what you voted for and have no understanding of what it will cost you.Zero!No retired people in El Paso any more what a load of horse shit.First your little group of voter did not get a mandate from the people,and you sure the hell did not understand or know what you were voted for.Not one of you can tell me what this will cost you in the long run ,not one.Hell even the CC cannot tell you what that it is, one big guess on their part.Then in the end I will not be the one who will have to pay for this crap so you Cv,Allegedly Alledgedly Alledgedly,others and you enjoy your bag of horse shit.One more thing in the next couple of days local media is going to tell you how more of your tax dollars were fucked away by the goodbuddie progressive in local El Paso government.No corruption ,no broken government in El Paso and you wonder why it stays the same.Geezus

Thomas, you are a bully. Just because you are handicapped does not give you a right to be a bully. You are mad at the world. Please, do us a favor, move with your children. El Paso is tired of people like you and the elections proved it. Age has nothing to do with it. My 84 year old grandfather who has more brains AND CLASS than you can ever dream of having voted for the bonds. He too is on a fixed income but he knows it is good for El Paso. Of course, my grandfather is a wonderful, kind man that people actually like to be around and not some troll (as you used to call yourself) that hangs out in his basement bashing everything and everybody. What a miserable person you are. I doubt your children WANT you to move close to them.

By the way, the SMALL amount you pay in sales tax IS NOT paying for the bonds, property taxes are which YOU DO NOT PAY so STFU!

Thomas....my house is valued at 325k...so my property taxes will rise by 13 bucks a month.....who cares!!! I'll pay that!! Big deal....you cheap ass old dudes need to start selling your junk on eBay. I still cannot believe anyOne would bitch about this cost!! CheaP ass old guys... Move yo Azzz to Cruces!!

Thomas don't let these smucks bring you down. Their points are baseless and all they try to do is get under your skin for what I see. Obviously you know what you are talking about. Riburn wishes he had a clue. Just revealing your name say's something true of what you say. I read alot of blogs where people actually use there names instead of avatar names that really give good arguments. In this case it seems you are out numbered and when you feel you have put your point across, these kids resort to bullying tactics. Why because that is the only way there parents raised them. Keep your chin up Thomas, Great Points!!!!


I see this "public-private partnerships" rage as a repackaging of the sell El Paso cheap. We did it with labor until NAFTA came in and made it impossible for american workers to compete since we have minimum wage laws. The city sold itself as a haven for cheap labor even after the garment business left when our trusted leaders went abatement and incentive crazy to bring in call center jobs. Now we are giving incentives/abatements and even building the structures for private business to use. Is it for Boeing or some other firm that pays a high wage? Nope. Its for hotels, retail malls, and a ballpark. All businesses that bring in low wage, no benefit jobs. I see this project as a continuation of selling El Paso cheap in the never ending race to the bottom. Why would any business move here or start a business here without abatements and incentives? Who is going to pay full freight on taxes? We the homeowner are not only paying for police/fire/teachers etc....we are now paying for public-private partnerships and of course incentives and abatements that we commoners will never get. The call centers were supposed to be an investment in ourselves...how has that worked out?

I hope this strategy pays off, but if prior results are any indication I think it will end in failure.

I thought prop 1 was ok...prop 2 was bad because of the arena which even david k was against until we was for it..or was he for it? prop 3 was ok because the ballpark was a done deal.

I think the city is doubling down on a losing strategy, but I dont think they know what else to do...or try. Which is why they ignored the independent studies that showed no economic benefits from taxpayer built stadiums.

notary public/LC
Thanks.They think they are getting me down but their post keep me laughing and then again it is so easy to get them jumping up and down.Just to funny!
And here is my last post on this topic to these smacks.George says it so much better than me but I thing the smacks will get the point,then again maybe not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO6NPlKEEUI&feature=relmfu

DavidK - I beg you - please delete that back and forth conversation between thomas and everyone else that has nothing to do with the topic. Tired of the name calling and threats. block their IP.

Phoenix; I agree 100% re: "public-private" partnership. That is code for privatize profit and socialize costs and risk, like the stadium. Like banking. The city and its managers don't know shit-from-apple-butter about business. They are bureaucrats, but bureaucrats are good at running potholes and sanitation and safety, relatively predictable stuff. Put them into a business, like that hotel, and they are clueless in el chuco because business is susceptible to the economy and its swings. The businessmen will coming whining and crying back to the city to renogotiate the deal, like the hotel did. The same will happen with this AAA team when/if ticket sales falter: "We need more revenue, lower costs, tax subsidies,..."

Public and private are separate for a reason and we should keep it that way, IMHO. If something is such a good deal, it should pay for itself without tax breaks and giveaways.

You all sound like you know what you are talking about.

Oh, ok Long John, we believe you, man! You're hilarious!

Hahahaha someone has to bring a bit of humor to this site.

notary public/LC, are you really that ignorant? Thomas started the attacks. He knows NOTHING about what he speaks. He is a miserable human being that attacks innocent people. Pick up the phone and call the city and ask about the financials. You will find my answer is the truth and he is full of paranoid shit.

This whole thread is amazing.

This whole thread IS amazing.

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