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March 20, 2017


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Well, after all these years, I've found out what it's like to get a David K thrashing. Mostly, I just meant to ask why you have taken the such a black and white position on the Caballero/Shapleigh crew and influence. I guess you're now saying that all the public transit improvements are a failure, all things smart growth failed along with other initiatives that came out of city hall from 2005 thru 2012, and that there have been no residual benefits from that investment in the years since and will be none in the years to come. What I was really trying to get at, hopefully without seeming like a cheerleader because I wasn't, was what you think the city would be if none of them had been elected? Honestly, that's what I was really getting at - and still am. You didn't try to answer that question. But you knew there was an out and out scandal at Children's that never got reported by the Times or anyone else and never made it into the bright El Paso sunlight? OK, I'll ask. What fraud and corruption are you talking about that none of us knows anything about? Where's the FBI when we need em? Yes, Children's pretty nearly went broke and it looked like they'd take UMC with them. Yes, a lot of people regretted their 2007 vote for it there in the depths of the financial and political problems between Children's and the county. But no one quite went belly up. And I think everyone survived, even if it meant having to leave town. There were no baby casualties and the county didn't go broke - or even raise taxes. Children's is still there saving little lives and looking to break even this year they say. Things may look bleak in El Paso from Washington DC where the cherry buds just got frozen and politics is hell. But here, it doesn't seem so bad and, DK, we're friends having this conversation, here, right? I'd carry on but I have yard work to do in the hour I have
before it gets dark. ;-)

The only thing that never changes in El Paso is the trickle up economy and the tax increases that fund it.

David Crowder's favoritism is shown by his sexism. He refers to "Luther's girls", but would not dare refer to Susie Byrd or Veronica Escobar as "Eliot's girls".

If you want to pick side, great.

But just be honest about it.



Who woke DavidK up? The blog goes from no posts for 10 days to three screeds in two days. We just want the streets paved, David.

I think DavidK is pointing out that the Shapleigh Campers are not all they were cracked up to be. You gotta admit the 10 years of JW and her friends on council got us into almost $1 billion in debt that no one seems to care about except Lisa Turner. There isn't an FBI scandal at Children's Hospital but it certainly was totally misrepresented to the public and the county never paid attention to the numbers until they could not be ignored. Sun Metro has always been subsidized by local and federal dollars. It has never paid for itself no matter what council did. The trolley will be the same way. It's a feel good boondoggle that will consume enormous amounts of money.

And yes, if any and all of the current elected officials and wanna be council members had any guts they would run on a platform of streets, streets and streets. But they won't. Because it's too boring. They are so out of touch with reality and every day citizens.

It's too bad Crowder (ElPaso's only real reporter) is held back from true investigative reporting by his employer.

DK -- please tell me what poor people have been forced out of downtown due to gentrification? No one was living downtown and now a few hipsters are. Who are these mystery poor people?

Hey this is really an interesting 'give' and 'take' with someone from the real media. And must say David K isn't taking any media crap either in this exchange.

Sometime back David Crowder had an article in the INC about the EP Times. He reported: "According to the Alliance for Audited Media to which newspapers report their circulation totals once a year, the El Paso Times’ Monday-Friday average circulation was 47,418 in 2012, and fell to 24,595 last year. That’s a 48-percent decline in subscriptions, news rack and street sales over four years."

Is the decline in local newspaper subscribers' or readership, any indication that readers no longer trust these news print sources?

David K certainly shows how others can reasonably view the same events. Examples are: this $180 million arena, the trolley, and certainly that Children's Hospital bankruptcy bailout.

Wasn't KVIA the news outlet that exposed the Children's Hospital debacle? And isn't KTSM the outlet that used open records requests to inform the public about this latest city arena debacle?

Is the local print media overrated and living on past glories?

OK, Powers, that was funny. Why is it we have folks who live so far away doing so much of the blogging around here? This is, after all, a safer city than any of the cities you guys live in.
Lest I over look Sour and Dour here, I'd observe that print still breaks stories here, but it's obvious some people have just quit reading. Not that the Times has made it easy to keep your subscription coming. But there, ladies and gents, you have the problem. Did print quit doing its job? I do not think so, not at all.
Did readers local and national just get too lazy to read, too cheap to pay for real journalism everyday and get lured away by online headlines from distant places where our kids don't play football and whose taxes we do not pay? Uh-huh, and we haven't quite figured out what to do about it and make a profit with a daily paper. El Paso Inc. is doing fine, tho, getting bigger and better. Night all.

Now David Crowder you must be pulling my leg with this one: "This is, after all, a safer city than any of the cities you guys live in."

You sound like a pr spokes person from the Greater Chamber, or from City Council, or Commissioners Court. You fail to mention car wrecks, shootings' & knifings, drunk driving, etc. Those are things that rob from the safety of any community, and at least TV reports on it.

Do appreciate your passionate defense of print media and the INC, and from afar will continue to read and enjoy your reporting. Is that ok?

No one ever addressed the issue of the two members on the Children's Hospital board voluntarily admitting they committed fraud against the federal government. They admitted that they lied about funding in order to qualify for the federal funds.

Next thing we heard the County Judge and local politicians were talking with federal officials to not prosecute because it would mean fines that would be taken from the "children".

This was written in the El Paso Times. So what happen with the confession? So to say there was no FBI case therefore nothing is very misleading.

From my cool mountain retreat here in the near far away, with a cool glass of unblessed alter wine from my favorite LC winery, an above David Crowder comment got me thinking. It was: "I'd observe that print still breaks stories here, but it's obvious some people have just quit reading."

So searched the Google for a not so long ago 2012 article by David: "Downtown arena support tainted? City knew more than 500 comments bogus."

And ee's right print does break stories, but is there follow up on those stories? In fairness, do realize the INC publishes only once a week, so possibly after any news break, reporters likely have to jump to other news' stories.

And David K, enjoyed the "alternative facts" you presented above, on how readers' or viewers reasonably can view things differently than those in the media. Possibly poster Anne lily Morganized ?, may have been making the same point.

Now a nip of wine.

This foray into the blog world has been fun if not seriously damaging. I will note that David Karlsruher did not answer the questions that were the entire point of my stepping into this deadly paintball shoot em up world. And that simply was, what city would El Paso be had none of the Caballeroistas or Shapleighites ever won elective office?
That would be the world David K would have wanted, and I just want to know what that El Paso would be like? The Jon Rogers era? Oh, and who who have been the leaders who led us there???
Because I am used to not getting my questions answered in the realm of political response after 40 odd years of asking questions ... I recognize it when it happens.
So, come on Dave, give it a go!!

Meant to say: "Oh, and who would have been the leaders who led us there?"

The El Paso Times is not run by Veronica and Susie. For years it has been Norma Chavez and someone else that I don't know. Norma has been a true friend to Bob Moore for years. I like Shapleigh a lot but, do not care for that guy Savareinzan. Sorry I don't know how to spell his name. And to whoever wants to know about the poor people in the Duranguito area. They are mostly elderly people that have lived in their homes or apartment for 40 years or more.
Does anyone know who the candidates for District 2 are? Hopefully there will be someone to like and vote for.

Hey David Crowder, you're ok, so don't go off frustrated. At least you have a big enough set of ranch huevos (balls) to share your thoughts with us.

Your INC article of February 20, 2017, "Sign of the Times: Daily cuts sections" was informative. This part especially: "Tom Fenton, who is now publisher of El Paso Inc., led the Times in the 1980s and ‘90s.
“It’s sad when a community loses any part of its local media. The more ways a community has to share information and express opinions, the better,” Fenton said.

He was the Times’ president, publisher and editor from 1986 until 1993. During his tenure, the newspaper hit an all-time high Sunday circulation of 100,577."

Possibly some El Paso readers have come to distrust the local print media, and those folks may feel their reasons are more than reasonable.

I understand what Crowder is saying and he may be correct in giving the Shapleigh Campers their kudos for all the progress that was made but, what he, and all of their cheering section, fail to see is they don't want to give up their control of the city. They (Byrd & Escobar) are running a candidate in each of the city races. Why can't they accept that they helped the city tremendously and move on to better things? Why attempt to continue to control the city through their puppets that get elected onto city council? There are term limits for a reason folks, maybe we should respect the city charter and let another council run the city how they see fit. Who knows, maybe this council would not have been so dysfunctional had it not been for all of the meddling? I highly doubt that but, it's still something to contemplate. No political faction should be in power that long, no matter how well-meaning.

here ya go Crowder. If the Shap's hadn't been there this City might be in much better shape fiscally. The Ball Park, Brio, the Trolleys, may make this City into another Detroit. The Ball Park may be at Cohen where it should be and not DTEP.

Has anybody been paying attention to my reporting on the EPISD scandal? I got a Ben Bradlee award for it fer Chrisakes! Go F yer selves.

When it comes to Claim #5, this is how it's done:


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