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May 30, 2018


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It's laughable how obsessed you guys are with Susie and Vero. I'm surprised you haven't suggested that they are part of the "Deep State" by now.


No one brought up Vero. You did.

So you’re saying this all just a coincidence?

That some got lucky with an open records request and so happen to know exactly what to ask for?

I’m more than willing to admit that I am wrong if you can prove it.

Otherwise you’re a sycophant or just naive.



Come on Man. I may agree with you on the e-mail thing and deep state at the city, but this is just a deflection of the that vote on the West Side PSB land. Margo broke the tie. That land was supposed to be protected. It isn't now.

It was protected under the 2013 agreement reached with city council. The greenies must have gotten senile since then. There is no change to that plan. It was accepted by all parties in 2013. The action taken Tuesday was to approve a TIRZ. No change to the master plan. Get.over.it.people.

Who Cares,

Although I was not one of the original greenies that you refer to, the greenie in me feels developing anymore of the mountain is a bad plan and the pragmatist in me knows funding it with a TIRZ is beyond inappropriate.

1. If an area is difficult to develop because of the terrain then maybe it should not be developed.

2. The voracity of the City's position on development difficulty is highly suspect, considering the development is directly adjacent to a relatively new subdivision that was developed without a TIRZ to offset the supposed difficult terrain challenges.

3. Most if not all the TIRZ appears to be in Canutillo ISD.

4. EPISD just had a news conference announcing they will be closing schools to regain financial stability which they attributed to declining enrollment caused by aging neighborhoods, urban sprawl and lower birth rates within the district.

5. The City constantly points to school taxes as the culprit for high property taxes and here they are incentivizing sprawl to the detriment of taxpayers who live in EPISD by subsidizing an area that benefits an ISD outside the city limits.

6. Like ski resorts, the Mountain is a recreation area that needs to be accessible and serve a variety of recreational skill levels especially novice and family. My understanding is Lost Dog serves that purpose.

7. And finally, El Paso's population is not increasing. Who and where is the market for these houses?

Do the developers really consider the natural arroyos ? Or they do some diverting and hope the properties are not affected.

Not a good idea.

Mary, good points. The mountains in this area are suitable for hiking and scenery but definitely not skiing. Less restrauants and more hiking needed in El Paso. City council doesn't know what they want. They pay for bike lanes to improve health then flood the areas with more eateries. And they want to build more restrauants on Transmountain ?

I guess the solution for the anti development crowd is just STOP all development on the west side. Force people to live in Horizon in the ETJ where only the county gets the taxes. Let’s not add a single commercial development anywhere at, around, near, next to anything that looks, feels, acts like a hill or a mountain. And then let’s bitch like crazy because the only ones paying taxes are homeowners. That’s brilliant. Half of these greenies don’t even live on the west side. They need to move their butts over here and pay taxes here so they have a right to bitch about mountain development. I think there might be 15 people out of 700,000+ in the city limits that care about this.

As far as EPISD closing schools. Maybe it’s because they suck. They can’t teach, they can’t administrate their way out of a paper bag. I can only hope and pray they go bankrupt and maybe Ysleta or Canutillo takes them over. instead of passing a $600M bond issue they should have had the guts to close the schools. This goes back to before the Board of managers. I remember one current EPISD board member raising holy hell as a city council person that EPISD dare talk about closing any school in her miserable district.

Never assume where anyone lives.

There has been 2/10 of 1% growth in population in five years. People are leaving, not moving here. So why the need for cheaply made cookie cutter houses ? It's called greed. There are plenty of nice and reasonably priced empty houses for sale. Are we following the N Koreans, building empty houses and hotels to simulate growth ? The reality is no matter the number of houses being built, taxes will remain high and home owners still pay. We are stuck with people that only know to tax and spend. Think about it. Read today's headlines and that's just one of many negative issues in the area.

More restrauants ? There's a shortage ? Plan was to revive downtown so continue to do the same thing that killed downtown areas nationwide. Build more shopping malls and strip malls?

Why do you see and hear people complain about crowded city traffic and lack of open space ? Why do people in crowded cities leave on weekends ? Open space !

One of the draws of El Paso are the Franklins or the beginning of the Rockies. They're beautiful ! So let's build fast foods, more Mexican eateries and clothing retail. Oh yeah, a water park in a region that is always complaining of water shortage and need to conserve. When it rains and you're flooded blame the county ?

The stats and potential establishments list comes from city records.

Private property. If this was settled in 2013 then why hasnt anyone developed it already ? Waiting for the right mayor to get in office to pass a TIRZ ? Mary makes alot of good points. Im not a geeenie and i have lived on the West side for 30 years. If this Lost Dog trail was gonna be lost due to the 2013 agreement then so be it, but don't give tax incentives for land right beside and the same landscape that didnt get it. "And then let’s bitch like crazy because the only ones paying taxes are homeowners." The fucking developers wont be paying any property taxes either for how many years ? This is a Hunt deal plain and simple. Just like back when Caballero was mayor and they tried to pass the TIFF around Thomason.

Did any of you anti development people do any reasearch on the 8 or 9 other TIRZ’s to find out if they lived up to their supposed benefits? If not then you really don’t know what you are talking about. Just admit you despise Hunt. I don’t see anyone complaining about the new development across Transmountain. Oh wait, that is Foster-Schwartz and O’Leary. They have trails over there too.

As far as 2013 agreement there is no water service there and EPW has declined to put in the water storage tanks. So before you convict someone how about going through the trial hearing the evidence and facts. But no, it’s easier to jump to a conclusion and destroy someone’s reputation without any actual proof.

If anyone is jumping to conclusions it's YOU.

You don't know where people live but assume you are the only living in the west side. Now you assume people hate Foster. Look, he's a business man and likes to make money. We may not agree with his plans but Hate?

Then you assume we dnt know anything about TIRZs.

Anyone that doesn't agree with you is clueless. All that agree with you are genius and well informed.

The problem is the lack of dialogue and a lot of assumptions.

Foster of Foster Schwartz is not the same as the baseball owner. Talk about assuming facts.

There was dialogue in 2013. There was agreement among all parties. Now one party wants to back out of the agreement and mislead the public into thinking there is going to be massive changes to the agreement. There is no basis for that belief. What is now decided-not up for discussion anymore-is the TIRZ which was approved by city council. Discussion done. Go to the ballot box in November and vote your opinion.

Did this group bother to push the vaunted 16th Congressional Rep Beto to have Obama or Trump declare this area off limits to development? No. They just want to complain about everything and everybody and offer zero solutions, no compromises.


Open space is not a zero solution. It is an aesthetic and environmental solution and really one of the only things El Paso has left to boast about.

Until now.

Jerryk, Respect = Hunt Sub-contractor.

1. Everyone pays the same tax rate so the assertion that moving to a specific area of town would somehow lower the tax rate of that area is absurd.

2.The land is publicly owned so anyone in the city limits has a legal right to object to the sale and/or proposed development. A TIRZ redirects revenue from the general fund to serve a select few as opposed to serving the greater need.

3. The only businesses worth working at were already established on the border of Cimarron i.e. ADP, HP etc. Cimarron did not attract any of those businesses.

4. If the existing TIRZ were successful then

1. The Homeowners tax rate would have decreased instead it has steadily increased to .8

2. The City Council would not be issuing millions in CO's to finance improvements, and the PSB would not be increasing rates, the money would be available in the TIRZ account.

3. The City Council would not be approving tax incentives, property and sales tax rebates to attract commercial development and subsidizing new construction of privately owned buildings in TIRZ zones.

I have yet to see an El Paso TIRZ deliver a public benefit.

They turn into private slush funds.

There were plenty of economic incentives given to the various business located in the Northwest Corporate Center that is in front of the residential development. ADP (twice); HP, Schneider Electric, State Farm (now gone), Charles Schwab, Tenet, and others.

I do not recall there being a single voice out there opposing the 8-9 other TIRZ’s in El Paso. Not one. When the public is silent, one can only assume that is consent. Amazing now that this one is a problem. The other TIRZ’s were set up for the same reason.

Majority rules. Don’t like the outcome of a vote? Run for office, win and overturn the decision. Simple.

Re: the first sentence of this blog post. Dave, until now, I thought you had lived in El Paso long enough to know the meaning of "tomorrow."

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