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August 10, 2018


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The "Right" starts once a CC sets rules to govern the speech, which then drags due process in along with it.

I wish I knew who the petitioner was (is) so I could protest in front of his house. One thing I do know is that he is yet another jerk who is upset because he doesn't have as much money as Margo. People in El Paso need to get a grip. You may be unhappy that you're "poor" but it is not the fault of every person who is not. If Margo was barely making ends meet, there would be no recall effort.

The guy spoke Tuesday at council on the ordinance petition item. He has attitude written all over his face. Let’s hope he keeps it up because that just furthers the perception that the open space advocates are not citizens that can negotiate in good faith and honor the agreement that was negotiated after 2 years of public involvement.

DavidK is correct in his criticism of this effort. The guy obviously has no earthly idea how government works.

Last post wrong thread...

57 UCLA L. Rev. Disc. 51

"Once officials provide an opportunity for public comment, some First Amendment scrutiny applies"

I guess we now have our own home-grown "resistance" group in El Paso. Led by Max Grossman and Rick Bonart. Great, now we will endure, lawsuits, recalls, accusations, misinformation, can't wait for the drama.

Recalls, and initiative petitions to force votes cost the city of El Paso about $150,000 each in fees to the County to conduct the election if its not done during a scheduled election. Lawsuits or threats of lawsuits that require the City to hire outside counsel costs money. So if Bonart, Grossman et al want to bitch about taxes then understand how much the "resistance" is costing taxpayers also. Maybe the Mayor should put a line item in the budget titled "lawsuits, recall, petitions legal fees". Put a number on it. Could be $1 million before its all said and done.

I know all the pro "resistance" people will comment that its their right. It is. But don't bitch when it costs the taxpayers money which ultimately raises taxes.

Too bad none of these people have the ability to sit down with the City or the PSB and NEGOTIATE! They just want to rant, rave, threaten and cost the taxpayers money.

With all the coverage on the Mayor's recall and the Tax increases along with the $3 Franchise fee increase for roads, nobody caught the City Managers salary increase. City Council will be meeting today to approve the Tax Increase. There is an Executive Session item regarding the City Manager. The Finance Oversight Committee has been meeting in Executive Session the last 2 weeks working out the details. Everything is set to approve the City Managers next big raise and nobody noticed. The Mayor and City Council worked in secret to get it done. Boy only in El Paso will we reward a City Manager for increasing our taxes for the 4th straight year.

So, if they get the signatures and CC rejects it, like they rejected the TIRZ, then what?

City Haller: is it really the fault of the CM when taxes go up? Or is the fault of the voters who want their streets fixed (perfectly reasonable but expensive) and voted FOR all the QOL projects? The voters -- and the ankle biters -- want more and more. Just try and cut the budget, i.e. services...the voters scream and city council backs down.

Central; there are ways to save money that don't cost the taxpayers. One is to stop making Swiss cheese out of our tax base by giving away tax breaks and concessions to billionaires.

Where does the TIRZ petition stand?

Last council meeting the city council voted 6-2 to deny the petition which would have created an ordinance to preserve the land. Next step is a petition to get on the next ballot. I understand Bonart was going to present that petition today to the city clerk. City has 20 working days to verify signatures are registered voters. It’s my understanding August 20 is the last day to add ballot measures to the November ballot. Otherwise a special election would have to be called, or put it on the May ballot.

City Haller- CM is tasked with preparing and presenting a budget every year to council. Council is the only group that can change, delete, revise the budget. Council determines what they want for a budget and staff advises what effect changes, additions, deletions will have on the budget. So everyone should quit blaming unelected staff for a VOTE by council to raise the tax rate. Go yell at your council person. It’s their fault if you don’t like the tax rate.


They turned in the second petition today with 2200+ verified registered voter signatures. I think they only needed 1800.

Mary; this is good, IMHO. I am sure the voters will decide against the TIRZ as open land is only available once. The city makes this big deal about keeping young people here and one of the best incentives for young people to be in a place is ecological QoL. I'm thinking of cities I know like Portland, Seattle, Santa Fe, Albuquerque...

The TIRZ is a tax issue. Open Space or preservation of PSB land is a different issue. This group tried in 2011-13 to stop all development on the westside. They failed. Jim Tolbert who led that petition effort, did the mature, grown up thing and sat down with the City, PSB, Developers and they worked on a plan for 2 years. It was full of public involvement. It was adopted. And now, that group has reneged on its promise and wants it their way - the "baby pitching a fit". I got news for Bonart, et al. Our kids and grandkids dont' live here. It has absolutely nothing to do with QOL. It has everything to do with job opportunities. We don't have major corporations here. We have government jobs -that's it. And a few decent size local owned businesses. I left in 1977 because there were no job opportunities. I came back in the 90's. The job climate was better - but still not like Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio etc. It will never be like those cities. The salaries are too low in El Paso for all levels of professional employment. So JerryK - it ain't about new urbanism and QOL. It's about jobs and money. It always has been since before Jesus was born.

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