« The real motive behind historical moves | Main | The debate thread »

June 26, 2019

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David, what if our only motivation is love for our City’s history and culture? Well then that would make you a fool, wouldn’t it? You cannot get your terminology straight nor can you distinguish between one type of historical district and another. The truth is that you know precious little about this topic and refuse to educate yourself. With a short phone call you could verify the truth of every comment I have posted but you will not do it because you are the one with the agenda.

I just wonder if you know the difference between road and rode. Figured some of that civil engineering in the background would have rubbed off by now.

You are right about Max. As someone that has actually gone through the whole process, from designation, to dealing with the THC, who is of course the SHPO, as well as the National Park Service, yes they get a say, and all three parts of the Application, it is a bitch. You give up a lot to try and attempt to get that tax break. It isn't a given.

Funny how Max doesn't address how this federal tax break was basically gutted in the last tax bill. Guess you would actually have to have your own dollars at work to understand that the credits are now basically worthless at a federal level. The ability to monetize, while still there, is significantly reduced due to the timing of the credits.

Not for existing projects, big business always gets there way, mind you. However, all of these "new" designations will be the recipient of basically no tax break at the federal level. There are 3 maybe 4 buildings that are even remotely "historic" downtown. Outside of that, they are just old and dilapidated.

ROAD,

Yep - got in a hurry and used the wrong one. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm nice enough not to point out your homonym problem because we all make innocent misteaks.

Love

David K

ROAD,
The point is you have a choice. No one forces anyone to go after the tax breaks. Foster, Gaddy and Meyers chose to and all three did so because it was profitable, but they didn’t have to. Why complain about free money? Just don’t put in for it and restore your property without it, or not. That’s my point. Btw, the process has been streamlined over the last few years and is somewhat easier.

Talk about the Dem debate. Much more relevant. A 10 person circular firing squad when they weren't pandering and virtue signaling. I asked myself, "What country are you running for president in? Mexico?"

JerryK, agreed. Why he keeps writing about the Arena and Lost Dog is enough. I know Foster and Hunt want their Arena built downtown, but give it a break. Beto who thinks he is Jesus walking out into the "New Mexico" desert like Jesus's wandering for 40 days finding out he was born for this got shamed by the guy who really is running for Prez of Mex and wants as many Mexicans out of Mexico as possible.

Jesus; I thought Tulsi Gabbard was the only credible and composed candidate on the dias. Not that I'd vote Dem but I can recognize quality and maturity compared to the other screaming children.

Agreed again. She is the only one with common sense and not trying to give everything away and make our country another third world Mexico.

the real Jesus,

Foster and Hunt having nothing to do with the downtown arena. Please stop spreading false information.

They will once the City goes bust with it and it will already be downtown. Get off your knees
Pendejo !

Tim M.,

Foster was cheering for the arena very publicly in his Ted talk. Why is he building that huge parking one block from the "Arena Footprint"? For Mexican shoppers?

Max G,

You seem to have a lexical misunderstanding.
Foster's support of a project does not mean that it also is "his" project - as the moron above suggested.

By the way, what ever happened to your pending "insider" information that you announced earlier that confirmed that Foster is involved with the arena?.... (crickets)

Regarding the new parking garage.. Have you forgotten that Foster is renovating a historic 131 room ($80MM) Trost hotel a mere 75' from the new garage? In addition, the Meyers Group is renovating a 300 room hotel across the street from the new garage.

Guess how many employees it will take to operate these two hotels? (Majority of them will drive)

Guess how many hotel guests will park using a personal or rented vehicle?

Guess how many local visitors will drive to the hotels to attend wedding receptions, quinceaneras, holiday parties, etc?

We already have interested parkers from nearby future developments (Banner Bldg) and from your friends at the W.S. Hills Bldg.

You may not be aware of this either, but there's another Trost renovation occurring at the old Tricky Falls venue. Once this is completed, we anticipate a high number of parking customers. Oh and yes, there will probably be some Mexican Shoppers as you have suggested.

Have a great evening!



Has anyone else seen the digital ads for the trolley advertising that it is free for the summer? What I thought it was interesting that the ad was entirely in Spanish and on Zerohedge. Whomever the city / chamber of commerce hired for the digital campaign has no idea what they are doing.

Hi Tim,

All of your points are well taken. There is no question but that Foster is a hero of historic preservation and that he has done more for the downtown economy than even the City of el Paso. That is why we honored him in the Anson Mills Bldg. that evening when he falsely (and very publicly) accused The Trost Society of engaging in politics. That is what we get for reaching out to find common ground. I never accused Foster of being a direct proponent of the Arena although I am sure it factors into his fiscal strategy. I naturally assumed the new parking ramp is being built on a gigantic scale with that in mind, but if I am wrong then I stand corrected. I continue to believe that he and the preservationists have more in common than we have differences, but there is zero communication.

Max G.

Whether you acknowledge it or not, you are the public face of the Trost Society. Trost Society is you - and you are the Trost Society. You have even channeled the spirit of Henry Trost during Trost Society events.

It is naive of you to expect the general public to differentiate your Trost Society persona from your political activism. Especially when you use the "El Paso History Alliance" FB group as a public forum for your political agenda.

With that said, I feel Paul went very easy on you that night by simply stating that the Trost Society had become "too political." Especially, in light of the fact you had, and continue to publicly attack Mountainstar Sports.

By doing so, you promote anti Foster-Hunt sentiment in your public forum. You then stir pot even further when the conspiracy theorists get riled up and you respond to their outlandish comments with "we were wondering the same thing.."

You cannot expect to be welcomed and supported when you have your Henry Trost derby on, while at the same time you constantly criticize other projects like sports ventures, parking facilities, and other real estate investments.

You can't have it both ways Max.

Tim M.,

I serve on The Trost Society Board with eight others, including some notable developers. We make certain to keep our 501c3 absolutely free of politics, and you will never see any mention on our pages of anything that is not related to architecture. If you are unable to separate our Board members from the mission of our organization, that is your problem, not ours. We do our jobs with maximum professionalism and dedication and we are paid nothing (unlike, say, the Clintons, who use their 501c3 to enrich themselves and promote their private agenda). Imagine if one applied your critical standard to the directors of other 501c3 boards. Philanthropy would end as we know it.

As for the El Paso History Alliance, you will not find a word of criticism of Foster in a single one of the posts on that page. I challenge you to cite a single comment impugning him. Rather, you will find many posts praising his preservationist projects. As for MSSG, I and many others are critical of the Ballpark deal and we have damn good reason to be, but we are extremely careful not to impugn your company. We merely point out facts. It would be nice, as I told you before, if MSSG would share its side of the Ballpark balance sheet with the public in order to dispel any wayward notion that the City is bleeding red while the company profits in the millions... Our criticism of a single design feature of Foster's parking ramp is not unfounded. I believe that is the extent of our criticism among a sea of praise. Perhaps your group should engage in a minimum of discussion with the preservationists and graciously accept some occasional thoughtful criticism rather than assuming you under attack, which you are not and never have been. There other groups that are far more critical than ours, believe me. FYI, I withdrew as an admin from the Lost Dog page because of anti-Foster sentiment that I felt was over-the-top and unfounded.

Tim, I and the others in my circle are far more reasonable than you assume--certainly more than most of the dimwits who comment on this blog. Have you noticed that you are welcome on all of our pages and that not a single one of your comments is ever deleted? You should try talking to us in person rather than trolling us on FB pages and blogs and presuming that we are beneath you.

Max

Max G.
I find it humorously ironic that you accuse me of trolling. Yet, you were the one who jumped in on my conversation with a blogging dimwit who falsely accused Foster & Hunt of being party to the downtown arena. Who’s trolling who sir?

As far as citing your public comments, here’s one of your more notable ones:

Last year one of your Duranguito protestors Zeke Pena, created a political cartoon depicting Caucasian pig-faced characters demolishing a Trost building in the Duranguito neighborhood. One character was dressed in a business suit – laughing as he clutches fists full of money. Incidentally, Zeke has been a featured artist at Texas Trost Society events.

On May 18, 2018 at 10:42am you shared a link on FB with your personal caption - “OINK!!”
The link is to a story published on KTSM’s website titled “City says tax incentives working for El Paso.” The story references multiple incentives including Foster & Hunt projects. You then provided a follow up statement within the subsequent comment section with the following:

[Max Grossman]
“The pigs are lining up at the trough for their feed!”

------------------------------------------

Max you just stated, “If you are unable to separate our Board members from the mission of our organization, that is your problem, not ours.”

Actually sir, you are doing your Board a monumental disservice by alienating your donors. That is indeed your problem....

Tim M,

This is getting interesting. I do not know who Zeke is and I never met him/her. Do you follow the outside behavior of everyone in your company and the people you pay or fund? I didn’t think so. The decision to invite Zeke’s participation was our former Executive Director’s, and if you had told me I would have taken action, assuming what you say is true. Zeke is no more “my” protester than yours.

As for my “oink” comment, I stand by it. The City doles out incentives recklessly, in my opinion. I did not name your boss but was referring to the phenomenon in general. I am hardly the only El Pasoan who is annoyed about the endless local abatements. I mostly blame the City for giving away our millions in the first place. I like federal and state tax breaks for preservationist projects that have clear economic benefit but draw the line when the City and County step in and give away the house, distorting competition and impacting local property taxes. Am I permitted to speak against this practice without being accused of attacking Foster?

Tim, it seems we will never see eye to eye or have a productive conversation, and that is too bad. You strike me as a decent guy but you and the David K’s of the world will always see the little guys outside of your circle as insects who obstruct progress, as if we should have no say in the direction of our community—we the chump taxpayers who just happen to live here. The disconnect between big developers and preservationists is one of the things that make El Paso uniquely dysfunctional. Just look at the dumb comments on this page, and the idiotic mental acrobatics of the moderator.

As for donations, we are all unpaid volunteers. Our mission is as follows: “To promote the legacy of Trost & Trost and other eminent architectural firms of the American Southwest, educate the public about the rich architectural heritage of our region through the twentieth century, and advocate for historic preservation and restoration." We will continue to focus on our core values and our entire Board is united in this, including Bryan, Sargent, and yes, developers too.

Our door remains open if you ever want to sit down for a substantive conversation.

Max, you are a deterrent to civility. Sorry, but the truth hurts. You attack and malign and then cannot accept a few mild criticisms. The comments about the History Alliance are accurate. I no longer follow it because the comments are sometimes slanted. Please move on to another city. You have used up your welcome here.

Max if you so despise DavidK and his blog why do you comment? And I don’t want to hear an excuse that you are setting the record straight. Maybe this is the only venue that will let you post endlessly your theories of who is screwing who in the world of municipal economic incentives.

who do you think will get the contract on the Arena Max ? Wouldnt be Jordon-Foster would it ?

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